Help - I think I've broken my car

[smarjoram]

Please help - my brain is tying itself in knots trying to work out what's happened.

I recently gave the car, a 1981 SC, a full service (first time I'd done it) and removed the smog pump. I changed, engine oil, transmission oil, filters, dizzy cap, rotor, ign. leads. I quadruple checked the valves and followed all torque settings religiously.

When I restarted the car it idled at 200 rpm lower than before and would often stall when I depressed the clutch to come to a standstill.

I adjusted the idle speed and it stopped stalling but I still feel that it lags a bit when putting my foot down hard and also the revs drop off very quickly when I put the clutch in - it looks like it falls to about 650 and bounces back up to 950 on the rev counter. Which makes the driving smoothly more difficult.

Thinking it was maybe something to do with the vacuum hose I replaced those too. Then I thought maybe I had attached the wrong hose to the vacuum advance on the dizzy. I unplugged the red rubber hose (which hardly seems to suck at all) with the redundant one from the smog pump (which you can feel sucking your finger. The idle speed rose - I adjusted it back down - and the car ran much more smoothly. Problem is - when I checked I discovered that it really was the smog hose and not the one it was supposed to be. So, fearing I might be doing damage I swapped them back again.

Generally the car seems more noisy as well - particularly around the fan and quite a noise emanates from the oil filler if I remove the cap. But that could just be paranoia.

Things that are causing me to lose sleep are...
I had to destroy the old rotor to get it off - could bits have fallen into the distributor causing it to malfunction?

Should the vacuum hose to the distributor have notieable suction on it and should it afect the idle if you detach it when the engine is running?

Why did the revs drop?

When I changed the transmission fluid I had the back of the car on axle stands so that the back wheels were just off the ground - could I have overfilled it?

Could I use the vacuum hose from the smog pump instead or would it do damage?

If any one can help put my mind at rest I'd be most grateful. I'm thinking about taking it to an expert to see if they can look at it - I just don't trust myself anymore. I thought I did everything right and carefully and now this has happened. I should give my toolbox away.

[Roy M]

Stefan

Can't help with the specifics but don't panic. We've all been through this type of thing. There's probably not much if anything wrong (and I'm sure you'll get the help you want from the experts here).

The number of strange noises I've heard just after doing some work is simply amazing - the brain is an awful thing sometimes

Good Luck

Roy

[smarjoram]

Thanks Roy - that's the kind of thing I wanted to hear. I just can't stop thinking about it though.

[cowtown]

Hi,
Don't worry about damaging the car. From what you've said, you didn't make any mistakes. Have you doublechecked the ignition wires to make sure they are correct? You might try timing with a timing light also, to verify the vacuum advance is working correctly.

One last thing I would say is that you've removed a significant piece from the engine - the smog pump. And, I assume, you've put solid plugs in where the air injectors used to be. I think it's possible this has changed the load on the engine at idle, as well as the exhaust system's characteristics. Maybe someone with more experience in this area will chime in, but would this affect anything to the point you would want to get your mixture checked out? This also possibly explains why you're hearing more engine noise...you're not hearing the pump any more.
Let us know what you find out, and good luck.

[sammyg2]

Sounds like a probably vacuum leak, nect time it's idling remove the oil fill cap and see what the idle does. If it drops and starts running rough it's probably OK, if the idle doesn't change very much then you have a vacuum leak somewhere.

[1fastredsc]

One side of the "dizzy" as you put it get's vacuum from intake which at idle provides constant suction. The other get's vac from the before the throttle. Which is which i don't remember, but vacuum signals mechanical advance and the loss of it creates retard.

[smarjoram]

The idle drops quite a bit when I take the oil cap off - so that's something.

The smog pump never worked because the drive belt wasn't installed. Also, I only removed it as far as the tinware and bunged the hole with a cork (and the vacuum hose too). The sight of the rusty nuts on the heat exchangers deterred me from removing the rest of the plumbing - I'll leave that to someone with an oxy torch.

I did just buy a timing light - so I'll check that out next.

Thanks again

[smarjoram]

Originally posted by 1fastredsc
One side of the "dizzy" as you put it get's vacuum from intake which at idle provides constant suction. The other get's vac from the before the throttle. Which is which i don't remember, but vacuum signals mechanical advance and the loss of it creates retard.

I think I have a slightly older type of distributor. Mine only has the single red (advance) hose going to it. I think the later one also has a blue retard hose - looking at the haynes manual.

(sorry about the term dizzy - you can get bored of typing distributor)

[Superman]

Been there, done that. Roy's advice is sound. RELAX.

Tranny fluid: Do what you need to do to have the filler plug off while the car is on level ground, no wheels in the air, even if you have to jack, remove plug, lower. Add fluid until it leaks out. Replace filler. Ignore tranny for at least several months. Sleep well.

Idle: My idle drops down, then recovers, each time I lift from the throttle. I'm curious about it but FAR less than worried.

Vacuum Hose: My distributor has two vacuum hoses. One makes vacuum all the time, or nearly all the time (including idle) and the other makes vacuum only under open throttle/acceleration. I think the red one does this. This helps keep the car from knocking under load. Just make sure they are hooked up properly.

Finally: It never hurts to do a tune-up in the sense of setting ignition timing and fuel mixture. You may need to take it to a shop for this, since the mixture thing requires a "sniffer." If you get rid of your catalytic converter and unplug your O2 sensor, you can set mixture substantially richer than stock spec, which makes your engine run better and last longer.

PS: I did not think the '81 models had air pumps. If so, you did a good thing by disconnecting it.

[jdowty3]

I'm guessing that when you say you removed the smog pump, you mean the air-injection pump and you capped the exhaust injection ports. Does your dizzy have advance and retard vacuum ports? I don't think you should feel vacuum on the line to the dizzy advance port when at idle since advance is needed as the RPMs increase and the increased airflow in the intake creates the vacuum. Seems like I saw a tech article here or on another site that showed diagrams on CIS and how the vacuum lines are connected.

[Kurt B]

no chance you broke anything. These engines are moron proof...cause mine still runs..and I accidentally DROPPED the freakin' engine a few years ago.

What a retard. Long story, but put it this way, I ended up loosening all of the bolts on what I thought was just the fan belt shroud not realizing it was really the freakin' motor mount, and then the engine shock bolt, all the while noting how god danged hard it was to get the shock bolt out, so then I started beating it with a hammer (friends and relatives now have instruction to call the authorities if I ever go out to my car with "hammer" regardless of what I'm doing), and after finally beating the thing out, the engine Dropped.
Of course, the tranny held it up..it didn't fall on the ground.
I panicked too.
Imagine my concern.
With the help of the board, I got a few jacks, jacked it all back up, and put it all back together and Voila, it's still running 2 years later.

[smarjoram]

That's a funny story Kurt - puts mine in the shade.

Like I say I only removed the pump parts that were in the engine bay - and plugged the pipe and hose. I think a trip to a garage for an ignition tune up might be a good idea.

[nostatic]

so your car is euro spec, right? If so you must have removed the air pump (left side of the engine bay). What's maybe confusing some of us 'merikuns is that only '78-'79 cars had that, with a switch to O2 sensor in '80.

[smarjoram]

It's definately euro spec - I bought it in Germany : )

[1fastredsc]

If you have only one line (not positive since mine has two) then most likely the one line you have relies on the intake vac. Timing advance and retard are based on two things, rpm and load. The rpm is taken care of in the distributor as your rpm goes up it advances. The load is taken care of by vacuum, when you throttle is closed and no load present, there's vacuum present and will therefore advance. If your WOT then usually your intake pressure will go to atmosphere pressure and therefore retard the ignition for the load.
And if you removed the oil fill cap and your idle's affected then there shouldn't be any vac leaks either.

[smarjoram]

Well, I wracked my brains trying to figure out what it was and as a last attempt before taking it to an expert put the old plugs back in. What do you know - it's fine again!!!

I haven't a clue what was wrong with them. Brand new Bosch W3CC's. Gap set correctly and seemingly firing on all cylinders. But it lagged when putting your foot down and the revs dropped fiercely when depressing the clutch.

Anybody know what was going on and whether it's possible/common to have faulty plugs?

[88911coupe]

Kurt,
I have remembered that story from my early days on this board and thank my lucky stars I read it before I did the same darned thing! This board has saved me a fortune in mistake prevention.

[bigchillcar]

Smarjoram,
Do a search if the part is applicable to your year model on the deceleration valve. Its purpose it to allow a slow deceleration of engine rpm's between shifts to avoid the drop you're experiencing. Perhaps therein lies your culprit...
Ryan

[makaio]

Originally posted by smarjoram
[B

Anybody know what was going on and whether it's possible/common to have faulty plugs? [/B]

Yes it is possible to have faulty plugs. Usually it only happens with the ones from the discount stores like Kragen.

If your car is a Euro spec car, and it has an air injection pump system, it must be a Swiss car. I have seen pictures of 3.2 Carrera's with air injection systems. In fact, I think it was Mikkel that posted the pic. Or it was the guy (sorry, I can't think of your name) that had his car stolen from in front of his house, while he was sleeping. (His name just came to me, Dickster)