Post-Valve Adjustment Noise: Normal or Not?

[mziggy16]

I adjusted valves on my ‘87 3.2 yesterday. It was my first solo valve adjustment so it took forever and I made lots of micro adjustments. Anyway, each of the valves needed adjusting because they were all too tight to get the feeler in there. I followed the Bentley and Wayne’s book and all seemingly went by the book.

I’ve only had the car about a month (with tight valves) so my ears aren’t fully dialed in to the appropriate sounds of the air-cooled engine, but post-adjustment it seems noisier and my neighbor, who knows zero about cars, said “what’s that tick tick tick sound” on my first drive out of the garage. My wife said it sounds normal to her.

So…is this the right “sewing machine” sound and I’m just being paranoid?

Or do I need to get back in there?

Exterior Clip:
https://youtu.be/JUkYFOeFB3s

Interior Driving Clip:
https://youtu.be/VnHIhBVJcSs

[john walker's workshop]

Not bad for your first time. A bit ticky, but I've heard worse. You need to do it a few times before you get the feel. Might want to do it again fairly soon. What feeler gauge holder are you using?

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Not bad for your first time. A bit ticky, but I've heard worse. You need to do it a few times before you get the feel. Might want to do it again fairly soon. What feeler gauge holder are you using?

This feeler:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELTOLP213.htm?pn=PEL-TOL-P213&bc=c&SVSVSI=0590

The previous feeler I used to help my buddy with his SC valves seemed a touch smaller/easier to get in there.

Next time I’m going to use the Kirk/Rennline valve tool to make the process more dummy proof.

[Locker537]

I found the kirk/rennline tool to be near impossible to use with the engine in the car.

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by Locker537

I found the kirk/rennline tool to be near impossible to use with the engine in the car.

What was the issue? Clearance?

[john walker's workshop]

You will have better luck if you make one of these. Easier to hold and maneuver and takes a 12" long gauge that rolls up in the loop. Been using the rounded one forever, Keep the blade smooth and no longer than the width of the swivel foot on the adjuster to keep the blade from bending too much.

[PeteKz]

As you develop your skill adjusting the valves, always err towards the loose side. Valves that are a few thou to loose may tick, but that won't hurt anything. Too tight leads to hard starting and burning the valves.

[emac911]

Better to hear them than smell them! I used the the Pelican SIR tool when I adjusted mine. I ended up breaking the feeler and had to fab another tip. The one John walker posted looks like a way better tool.

[proporsche]

all of the above or you can practice this way, how i do it..double check after with you feeler....eventually you`ll get it right
Ivan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ypBn_u7g8

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by proporsche

all of the above or you can practice this way, how i do it..double check after with you feeler....eventually you`ll get it right
Ivan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ypBn_u7g8

For guys like me that over think some of this stuff...that video always reminds me to keep it simple.

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

You will have better luck if you make one of these. Easier to hold and maneuver and takes a 12" long gauge that rolls up in the loop. Been using the rounded one forever, Keep the blade smooth and no longer than the width of the swivel foot on the adjuster to keep the blade from bending too much.

John, did you make these?

I use a Starrett feeler gauge holder that is the same idea, but not as ergonomic as the tools you use.

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/806

[Schulisco]

To me it sounds not too bad.
I made an interesting observation on my SC: I got the car back from a big service incl. valve adjustment. When I drove it I noticed a ticking sound from a single cylinder especially when the engine was fully warmed up after at least 10mls.
The workshop answered "go ride it, no worries. We will adjust it later on."
I wouldn't let it go, so I started my investigation. To make a long story short: Especially on cylinder #6 (with the engine oil cooler next to it), the amount of fuel was way more less than the others. This caused a higher cylinder and head temperature in combination with the lowest amount of cooling air cylinder #6 is getting and because of that it was running much hotter than the others. So the lean mixture on it was the reason because its exhaust valve ticked. I didn't cheched the valve clearance since then, the engine runs smooth without any crappy noise.
What I want to say: Of course recheck your valve clearance, but also have a look on the jets and the amount of fuel they deliver! Also check the mixture in general. How is the fuel pressure in the system?

Thomas

[proporsche]

Here is my feeler gauge..for info if need it..

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by proporsche

all of the above or you can practice this way, how i do it..double check after with you feeler....eventually you`ll get it right
Ivan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ypBn_u7g8

If you multiply the time that took by 40 then you’ll have the approximate time it took me per valve

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by Locker537

John, did you make these?

I use a Starrett feeler gauge holder that is the same idea, but not as ergonomic as the tools you use.

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/806

The top one was from a tool truck eons ago, and I haven't seen any for a long time. The bottom one was a joint venture between me and Island911 to improve the original design, which was kind of clunky and a bit too long. He made a bunch years ago and sold them on the forum. No more to be had, unless someone steps up. They do work very well, even between the cat and lower left side, due to length.

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

The top one was from a tool truck eons ago, and I haven't seen any for a long time. The bottom one was a joint venture between me and Island911 to improve the original design, which was kind of clunky and a bit too long. He made a bunch years ago and sold them on the forum. No more to be had, unless someone steps up. They do work very well, even between the cat and lower left side, due to length.

Thank you! Ah, I think I remember reading about that before. Likely in another post from you.

I believe I purchased the Starrett after failing to find one like yours.

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by mziggy16

If you multiply the time that took by 40 then you’ll have the approximate time it took me per valve

HA! Nice...

[ahh911]

Originally Posted by Schulisco

To make a long story short: Especially on cylinder #6 (with the engine oil cooler next to it), the amount of fuel was way more less than the others. This caused a higher cylinder and head temperature in combination with the lowest amount of cooling air cylinder #6 is getting and because of that it was running much hotter than the others. So the lean mixture on it was the reason because its exhaust valve ticked. I didn't cheched the valve clearance since then, the engine runs smooth without any crappy noise.


Thomas

Thomas, very interesting.
I haven't been around too many other air cooled 911, but it seems to me like the right side (456) I hear the exhaust ticking more often then the left side, I even make it a point of listening as other 911's drive up. I just thought it was because the muffler is masking the sound on the left side. Also, you think the oil cooler heats up Cyl6 more than the others? Cyl 5 has two hot neighbours, just thinking the oil cooler should have lower temps? Maybe you are right, is this a known fact?

Cyl 6 had how much less fuel delivery than the others with plate moved up into the mid range? Do you remember? My right side starts to tick when warm as well, not sure which cyl, my fuel is decently balanced but could be better.

Phil

[Schulisco]

Phil,

easy 10-15% difference to others, almost on the limit to miscombustion. I could hear the ticking noise best under load of the engine. I removed the shift coupler lid and the rubber boot there to better hear the noise while driving.
Not only the jets are in suspect. Far more the (misadjusted) fuel distributor on the CIS cars often is the culprit. On Carreras this problem could be caused mainly by the jets.
On my car the fuel distributor was completely out of balance. And although I spent two days on trying to balance it playing with measuring cups and the adjustment screws on top of it - no chance. Then time has come to get the fuel distributor refurbished. The fuel delivery test to compare the delivered fuel amount of every cylinder is from my side mandatory on every CIS car with unclear running problems, performance and mpg issues, of course beside other checks. No question. But on a 30,40 year old car you cannot rely on a proper balanced fuel distributor any more.
I don't know what difference Porsche/Bosch tolerate. But from my point of view it should be as exact and close as possible, less than 5%. I made my measurements always on WOT.

Cyl. 5 and 4 are completely in the stream of cooling air. Cyl. 6 has the engine oil cooler next to it. Sooner than later those get dirty and so their cooling capacity is reduced which also results in higher temperatures. Cleaning of the engine oil cooler is always mandatory on a big service.

Thomas

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by ahh911

Thomas, very interesting.
I haven't been around too many other air cooled 911, but it seems to me like the right side (456) I hear the exhaust ticking more often then the left side, I even make it a point of listening as other 911's drive up. I just thought it was because the muffler is masking the sound on the left side. Also, you think the oil cooler heats up Cyl6 more than the others? Cyl 5 has two hot neighbours, just thinking the oil cooler should have lower temps? Maybe you are right, is this a known fact?

Cyl 6 had how much less fuel delivery than the others with plate moved up into the mid range? Do you remember? My right side starts to tick when warm as well, not sure which cyl, my fuel is decently balanced but could be better.

Phil

I had the same sound observation on mine. The sewing machine ticking sound seems more prominent on the right/passenger side.