Front brake pads for SC with boxster calipers

[Fleetwood]

Looking for front brake pad recommendations for my slightly improved SC. Car sees a big track once every couple years plus annual drivers skills/autocross type training. Lots of slow driving too, so nothing too aggressive.

Only brake mod is the boxster calipers up front with larger carrera rotors. All works remarkably well but I dont push too hard. 8yrs and 30K on the change and unknown brand of new boxster pads. I do remember some very distracting squealing years ago but all quiet the past few years

While the visual upgrade was my primary motivation, the brakes are easily modulated and initial bite seems smoother but after a zillion Pelican reads I'd probably not recommend it. I've considered finishing the swap, since I have the rear calipers, and doing a turbo master cylinder but the brakes really are just great the way they were and just fine now too

Nothing too exotic on the pads please. Minimum dust would be nice but the pedal feel, modulation, and no need for hard warm-up are more critical. Thanks ahead for your thoughts and assistance. Pelican rocks

[blucille]

I’ve been very pleased with every set of porterfield pads I’ve put on every car. No let downs. No complaints.

[icarp]

Originally Posted by blucille

I’ve been very pleased with every set of porterfield pads I’ve put on every car. No let downs. No complaints.

That is the Porterfield R4s to be specific , all 4 wheels

Fantastic

Ian

Be aware that the Bias may change with mixed calipers and pad compounds

you say "I have the rear calipers," yes put these on , but do not change to a turbo master cylinder.
Keep the 19mm

[Sebscst]

I have the hawk hd pads on the same setup. Icarp why tell him not to change to the 23 mm turbo master cylinder. Just curious as I him this set up on mine and when the brakes get warmed up they definitely bite hard.

[Fleetwood]

Thanks for the input. Pelican offers way more than 10 different options for front pads. A few are less than $20/set with one set of pure race pads over $500/set. Several in the $100-200 range and expect that's where I'll probably go

Appreciate the details, like bias may change with mixed pads, as I hadn't considered that and now need to factor that into my "improvements".

Still having difficulty believing brake pads for a pcar can be in the $15-20/set, but Pelican shows two or three of them. Kinda scary. Any info on the Ferodo, Mintex, ATE pads that go for less than a $100?

[Otter74]

I used the Porterfield R4S for years and years on another car of mine - it was a normal-use car that I also occasionally did track events in - and I was very happy with them.

[Quicksilver]

I use Porterfield R4S on everything. Ford F250, Nissan pickup trucks, Subaru Forester, Volvo Bertone and V70, and the 911. They have a great initial bite, rather low dust, a really flat friction curve over the whole temperature range, serious resistance to fade, and a great price.

The wife calls it "Wayne-ifying the brakes".
(The Subaru was actually dangerous with the Raybestos pads that were on it when I bought it. Made the wife try it and she said, "Why would you buy a car with such bad brakes?" Put the Porterfield R4S on them and instantly fixed.)

[Cory M]

I'm running Hawk HPS on my boxster/carrera set up. I like them. Have used these pads on a couple street cars with good results. Porterfield Enterprises sells several brands and hasn't steered me wrong with recommendations for street or track, give them a call.

[Fleetwood]

Ordered a set of the porterfield RS4 from our host. Thanks for all the recommendations and I'll try to remember and write a review to close out this post

[icarp]

Originally Posted by Fleetwood

Ordered a set of the porterfield RS4 from our host. Thanks for all the recommendations and I'll try to remember and write a review to close out this post

I am sure you will love this brake pad and it's performance .

Bleed the brakes while you are changing the pads

[Fleetwood]

Only about 50 miles so far on the Porterfield pads and rotors and all feels great. One high speed braking try and no vibration thru the steering wheel with excellent modulation and feel from the porterfields. Didn't bleed the rears and only minimal bleeding of the fronts as I didn't disconnect the brake lines. Pedal feels very tight with little deflection. Old pads were textar worn over half way down with rotors pretty wavy causing the steering wheel to vibrate significantly when braking from high speed. New brakes feel very smooth with easy modulation throughout the braking spectrum. More testing required but I'm very happy so far. Compliments to the Pelicans that helped me make this decision

[H-viken]

Hijacking but just a little bit since a topic is raised that I’m curious about - brake bias.

Stock bias is 1,5 I believe (correct me if I’m wrong)

What is it with Boxster calipers front and rear?

What is it with Boxster front and Carrera rear as mentioned a few times above?

Johan

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by H-viken

Hijacking but just a little bit since a topic is raised that I’m curious about - brake bias.

Stock bias is 1,5 I believe (correct me if I’m wrong)

What is it with Boxster calipers front and rear?

What is it with Boxster front and Carrera rear as mentioned a few times above?

Johan

Torque bias is above the paired columns, each column is the brake torque developed by the labeled caliper @70bar line pressure, Boxster calipers are all on Carrera 3.2 rotors, native Boxster rotors would give different results


bias for a 911 generally wants to be > 1.4 and as low as can safely be used, lower gets the rear involved more offloading thermal and torque loads to the back. The higher the # the more burdened the front and less efficient overall.

useable bias depends on weight distribution, suspension height and stiffness, tire grip at each end and effectiveness of the lsd. The further < 1.5 you go the stiffer, lower, grippier rear and more effective you want the lsd to be. Go too far and the car will be unsafe.

go too far >1.5 and the less efficient though safe the braking will be, increasingly overloading the front

[H-viken]

That’s a great overview Bill! Thank you!

So Boxster front and wide M rear is not too far off

Wide A front with the wide M rear stick out and so does the 964 set up. How come Porsche chose these set ups?

Wide M = 84-89 Carrera, correct?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by H-viken

That’s a great overview Bill! Thank you!

So Boxster front and wide M rear is not too far off

Wide A front with the wide M rear stick out and so does the 964 set up. How come Porsche chose these set ups?

Wide M = 84-89 Carrera, correct?

[QUOTE]Wide A front with the wide M rear stick out and so does the 964 set up. How come Porsche chose these set ups?
/QUOTE]

wide A/M was probably chosen because the Porsche market waat that time was changing from enthusiast to Doctor/Lawyer and Indian Chief, the newer buyers were complaining that the front pads needed to be changed more often than the the rears

964 was probably an abundance of caution, Porsche was stinging fo a series of lawsuits related to safety.




to this day their more mundane offerings have lots of front while the track oriented like GT3 get more aggressive bias like the 993RS

[H-viken]

A follow up question; if you have a set up where the front brakes won’t lock up, but the rears will, are these then the options available?

1. Install a proportioning valve
2. Install a dual master cylinder
3. Install new front calipers with a larger piston are than what is currently there

Johan

[H-viken]

A follow up question; if you have a set up where the front brakes won’t lock up, but the rears will, are these then the options available?

1. Install a smaller master cylinder along with a proportioning valve
2. Install a dual master cylinder
3. Install new front calipers with a larger piston are than what is currently there

I’m trying to understand the dynamics

Johan

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by H-viken

That’s a great overview Bill! Thank you!

So Boxster front and wide M rear is not too far off

....?

correct, when used on stock 24mm 3.2 rotors f/r the torque bias ratio is 1.554, vert close to ideal

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by H-viken

A follow up question; if you have a set up where the front brakes won’t lock up, but the rears will, are these then the options available?

1. Install a proportioning valve
2. Install a dual master cylinder
3. Install new front calipers with a larger piston are than what is currently there

Johan

or install rears w/ smaller pistons.

different effective rotor diameters also affect bias but less so and w/ fewer choices

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by H-viken

A follow up question; if you have a set up where the front brakes won’t lock up, but the rears will, are these then the options available?

1. Install a smaller master cylinder along with a proportioning valve
2. Install a dual master cylinder
3. Install new front calipers with a larger piston are than what is currently there

I’m trying to understand the dynamics

Johan

when the m/c is sized appropriately it doesn't affect bias, if it is too small then the larger piston set will be underfed and not function efficiently

pedal ratio is the metric that describes m/c sizing, w/ as the pedal ratio goes for ~45 to 50ish the larger piston axle set is increasingly underserved, small barake lines exacerbate the issue.

there is really no lower limit but in practice it requires more leg than a typical driver has, low 30s is the sweet spot for healthy sporting driving, into the 20s for young pros on a track