No one tells you this part… (longhood latch panel install- help!)

[evan9eleven]

Hi everyone!

So there are plenty of threads with information on removing a shorthood latch panel, but none that tell you how to get the new longhood one in. I feel a bit dumb for asking, as the process should be obvious, but someone here undoubtedly has the answer. (No, installation is not the reverse of removal…)

It wasn’t that hard to remove the old one, just time consuming grunt work, but that went fine and everything cleaned up well. I have the following observations:

-I considered if the panel could slip downward into place from inside the frunk, but there are several reasons this won’t work. The big one being that it isn’t possible to slip the bottom of the new panel over the outside of the suspension pan, which has to happen. The battery to chassis grounding post also appears to be in the way.

-It is also impossible to insert the panel from the outside, as anyone who has done this will know.

What am I missing here?


Some pics. All cleaned up and ready for the new panel:


Its not going in this way as far as I can tell:

[john walker's workshop]

Might need to straighten out the lips one side and bend it back once the panel is in. I always did it along with the suspension pan, never tried it by itself. Good luck.

[Dpmulvan]

It’s easiest to open up the ends like John said, if I remember correctly you need to notch the top ends ( Channel) so they fit underneath the inner fenders. Also have to cut or drill spot welds so the bottom corners of the new panel slides in. If I remember correctly getting the bottom of the new panel in correctly is the painful part.

[Dpmulvan]

[Jonny042]

Other than doing a full pan replacement the suggestions thus far are good.

A small cut at the top and bottom of the fender liner and basically splay the inner fenders outward far enough to slip the panel in should/could/might, hopefully, do it.

Or, go all in...

[evan9eleven]

Thanks everyone!

I thought it might require some additional surgery, but needed to hear it from those who have been there before I start cutting. I did consider opening up one end, as that will be easy, so that's what I'm going to do.

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Might need to straighten out the lips one side and bend it back once the panel is in. I always did it along with the suspension pan, never tried it by itself. Good luck.

Thanks! Now I have a plan.

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

It’s easiest to open up the ends like John said, if I remember correctly you need to notch the top ends ( Channel) so they fit underneath the inner fenders.

Thanks for the tips! I wondered about that channel. I'm sure it will be obvious once I get the panel test fit.

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Or, go all in...

In your case ALL OUT... as in cut it all out and rebuild the car!
Pan is OK, so I'll go for a little nip and tuck instead. Thanks for the pics and info! I've studied the first couple pages of your build thread backwards and forwards, so those pics are very familiar!


.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

In your case ALL OUT... as in cut it all out and rebuild the car!
Pan is OK, so I'll go for a little nip and tuck instead. Thanks for the pics and info! I've studied the first couple pages of your build thread backwards and forwards, so those pics are very familiar!


.

I did figure as much! You're on the right track, and at the end of the day, it's only metal and you can cut and shape and bend and weld it over and over again till you're happy with the results.

Now - speaking of test fitting the panel, I can't recall how much of the new sheet metal you have on hand, but don't succumb to the temptation to weld in that new panel without test fitting it with your hood, and the bumper seal, and the bumper, and the fenders. And the turn signals and the horn grilles.

This is the critical point in the project where the fit (or lack thereof) of all these components is determined.

Yes, there is a certain amount of adjustability with everything but the one thing that can't be moved once installed is that damn channel that holds the bumper seal. And it basically needs to be within a few mm of the correct position or else there will be gaps and misalignment of the bumper seal.



The hood and fenders need to be positioned with respect to the cowl and doors, and each other, so imagine if you get those perfectly aligned with all the gaps where you want them, and you've already committed to a position of that bumper seal.

It's not just the vertical position that's important, it's the fore/aft position.

Everybody struggles with this, even the factory restoration department. Even Singer doesn't nail it on every car.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

I did figure as much! You're on the right track, and at the end of the day, it's only metal and you can cut and shape and bend and weld it over and over again till you're happy with the results.

Now - speaking of test fitting the panel, I can't recall how much of the new sheet metal you have on hand, but don't succumb to the temptation to weld in that new panel without test fitting it with your hood, and the bumper seal, and the bumper, and the fenders. And the turn signals and the horn grilles.

This is the critical point in the project where the fit (or lack thereof) of all these components is determined.

Yes, there is a certain amount of adjustability with everything but the one thing that can't be moved once installed is that damn channel that holds the bumper seal. And it basically needs to be within a few mm of the correct position or else there will be gaps and misalignment of the bumper seal.

The hood and fenders need to be positioned with respect to the cowl and doors, and each other, so imagine if you get those perfectly aligned with all the gaps where you want them, and you've already committed to a position of that bumper seal.

It's not just the vertical position that's important, it's the fore/aft position.

Everybody struggles with this, even the factory restoration department. Even Singer doesn't nail it on every car.

Oh yes, you can be sure that I will be fitting and adjusting everything before the panel gets welded in, but thank you so much for mentioning it, as it is easy to get carried away. I'll position it with clecos or screws for now, and then the real work begins with the rest of the parts.

I've test fit my new fenders, and they are really not great so I will have some serious work to do there to get the gaps right. I'll surely be needing advice!

[Showdown]

Can’t stress Jonny’s point about fitting enough. Clamps, tape, clekos, screws… use whatever you need to get the whole thing put together and fit to your liking before securing anything. Even perfectly fit parts have a way of shifting, distorting and otherwise conspiring against you later on.

It’s kinda like home building: if you want the tile to look good start with the framing.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Showdown

Can’t stress Jonny’s point about fitting enough. Clamps, tape, clekos, screws… use whatever you need to get the whole thing put together and fit to your liking before securing anything. Even perfectly fit parts have a way of shifting, distorting and otherwise conspiring against you later on.

It’s kinda like home building: if you want the tile to look good start with the framing.

I couldn’t agree more! Which is why I’m currently test fitting my Dansk fenders, and the fit is not particularly good. I can weld reasonably well, but knowing what to do to get a nice fit on these… well, the learning curve is steep. I’m starting to regret going with repro fenders over welding in new light boxes on my shorthood fenders. More on this below.

On positive note, and to follow up the original purpose of this thread, I did a little metal surgery and the latch panel went in with no drama. Screwed temporarily in place until I fit the rest. There are probably multiple ways to do the same thing but here was my solution:

[evan9eleven]

I’d love some advice on the fenders, “while we’re in there.” I bolted up the left fender with 5 bolts in it including the one in the cowl closest to the door, and as most people find out the hard way, a repro panel just isn’t going to match a hand-built car very well. I can probably massage the fender to cowl area to sit better somehow (haven’t ever done it, so I’ll need some help!) Gaps I can weld up or shape. Its at the front of the fender I’m most concerned— the flange on the outer fender that mounts to the inner fender deviates greatly in it’s contour at the very front, and the fender sticks out past the latch panel. Having never worked on a longhood or conversion like this, it is hard for me to know what is correct, or can be corrected, or is just plain wrong. I’m seriously considering welding light boxes to my shorthood fenders instead, but that won’t be a piece of cake either.

Here you see the difference in these contours where the fenders meet:




And the rest of the poor fit:

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

On positive note, and to follow up the original purpose of this thread, I did a little metal surgery and the latch panel went in with no drama. Screwed temporarily in place until I fit the rest. There are probably multiple ways to do the same thing but here was my solution:

Good job! That's exactly what I had in mind, but wasn't sure if it would work... it would be necessary to remove at least part of the impact bumper mounts to do it this way, correct?

[Dpmulvan]

You have a pm

[Showdown]

The fit of the front fenders was the number one reason I decided to keep my car’s original fenders and weld in the light boxes. I figured that even if the extensions were crummy and didn’t fit well (they were and they didn’t) it would be less work than shaping a whole fender.

Ultimately, no matter which way you go there will be shaping involved. It just might be easier to keep the work isolated to the light box area rather than fighting the whole fender.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Good job! That's exactly what I had in mind, but wasn't sure if it would work... it would be necessary to remove at least part of the impact bumper mounts to do it this way, correct?

Yes, good point. At the least they must be trimmed, which must be done to fit the early fenders anyway. This photo from earlier in the thread shows how I modified my mounts. They can also be removed completely.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

You have a pm

Thanks, replied.

Originally Posted by Showdown

The fit of the front fenders was the number one reason I decided to keep my car’s original fenders and weld in the light boxes. I figured that even if the extensions were crummy and didn’t fit well (they were and they didn’t) it would be less work than shaping a whole fender.

Ultimately, no matter which way you go there will be shaping involved. It just might be easier to keep the work isolated to the light box area rather than fighting the whole fender.

I think you're absolutely right on this point. I'm not sure why in the world I thought new fenders would be less work than welding on the light boxes, especially as I have ok welding skills. Of course, not having ever tried fitting new fenders to a 911, I couldn't have known. These Dansk fenders are pretty awful. I'm sure a master fabricator would get them sorted just fine, but I'd be going by trial and error, mostly error

[mepstein]

Porsche sourced fenders are much better than Dansk. We get them at a discount from our local Porsche dealer ( Delaware Porsche Parts dot com) no sales tax in DE and pickup saves a ton on shipping. If you are within a couple hours, it’s worth the drive. It’s the dealer in Newark Delaware but you have to order through the online site.

[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by mepstein

Porsche sourced fenders are much better than Dansk. We get them at a discount from our local Porsche dealer ( Delaware Porsche Parts dot com) no sales tax in DE and pickup saves a ton on shipping. If you are within a couple hours, it’s worth the drive. It’s the dealer in Newark Delaware but you have to order through the online site.

Don’t think you can drive from Norway to Delaware.

[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

Thanks, replied.



I think you're absolutely right on this point. I'm not sure why in the world I thought new fenders would be less work than welding on the light boxes, especially as I have ok welding skills. Of course, not having ever tried fitting new fenders to a 911, I couldn't have known. These Dansk fenders are pretty awful. I'm sure a master fabricator would get them sorted just fine, but I'd be going by trial and error, mostly error

If the dansk are still uncut and decent shape sell them and buy some longhood fender replacement bottoms or entire weld in light boxes. Use to be able to get just the replacement bottoms new for like $120 a piece at DC auto.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by mepstein

Porsche sourced fenders are much better than Dansk. We get them at a discount from our local Porsche dealer ( Delaware Porsche Parts dot com) no sales tax in DE and pickup saves a ton on shipping. If you are within a couple hours, it’s worth the drive. It’s the dealer in Newark Delaware but you have to order through the online site.

Thanks. I think given the cost involved with buying Porsche fenders, and risking them still needing lots of work, I'll modify my original fenders instead. I actually feel better about going that route. And Delaware is a bit far from me.

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

Don’t think you can drive from Norway to Delaware.

I wonder if I can put a couple fenders in my checked baggage? 😁

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

If the dansk are still uncut and decent shape sell them and buy some longhood fender replacement bottoms or entire weld in light boxes. Use to be able to get just the replacement bottoms new for like $120 a piece at DC auto.

Those days must be long gone-- sourcing light boxes in Europe, I'll be out over a grand after shipping and tax. The fenders are like new so I can sell them. Or cut out the light boxes as the rest of them is crap!