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wheel bearing/spindle query
So my SC had some front wheel bearing play. Adjusted, no luck. Replaced bearings - still got play. Then I find a slight lip on the spindle underside where the outer bearing sits. I am guessing this is the problem.
Does this mean total replacement of the strut? Thanks Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) |
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05-12-2021, 09:40 PM
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Enginerd
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That's a great question. I just finished refurbishing/rebuilding my front end. My strut spindle was in great shape, but had it not been, I think the answer to your question is yes. If others know better, I am interested to hear as well. I suppose one possible alternative would be to take it to a machine shop and have them build up the area where the lip exists and have them re-machine the bearing surface, but that could become cost prohibitive relative to replacement.
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1982 Guards Red 911SC, 1994 Riviera Blue RoW 993, 2017 GT Silver Turbo S, 2020 British Racing Green Macan GTS Gone but not forgotten: 2012 Guards Red 991.1 C2S, 2017 Carrera White Macan GTS IG: @pcar911fan |
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05-13-2021, 03:42 AM
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I'm going to say replacement is in your future.
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Mark '83 SC Targa - since 5/5/2001 '06 911 S Aerokit - from 5/2/2016 to 11/14/2018 '11 911 S w/PDK - from 7/2/2021 to ??? |
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05-13-2021, 04:59 AM
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SC spindles are pretty robust. I have never heard of the type of issue you describe. Can you post a picture?
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Mike PCA Golden Gate Region Porsche Racing Club #4 BMWCCA NASA |
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05-13-2021, 08:17 AM
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Could easily be the DU bushings in the struts are worn. Feels just like wheel bearing play when the bushings between the strut cartridge and strut body wear out.
Guess where this substance came from?
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1978 SC Targa |
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05-13-2021, 09:37 AM
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OK - pic as requested. This one is the original strut with the issue on the SC. I replaced it with a spare one off a dead SC that I had. Same issue. You can see the lip on the underside and inboard where the bearing sits. Some sight scuffing further out. The topside looks fine. At a guess I would say the lip is about 2 thou.
Would be interested to know which bushing is being referred to. Thanks Alan 
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) |
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05-13-2021, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
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05-13-2021, 12:34 PM
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Enginerd
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Quote:
This….  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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1982 Guards Red 911SC, 1994 Riviera Blue RoW 993, 2017 GT Silver Turbo S, 2020 British Racing Green Macan GTS Gone but not forgotten: 2012 Guards Red 991.1 C2S, 2017 Carrera White Macan GTS IG: @pcar911fan |
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05-13-2021, 12:44 PM
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Right - I just checked the link above - internal bushes in the strut.
Any threads on how to? Will do a search. Thanks Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) |
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05-13-2021, 01:36 PM
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Remove the metal dust boot and reinstall strut in car, with the car on jackstands and wheel off, grab the strut at the point where the cartridge inserts the strut and push/pull. The play will be obvious if the DU bushings are shot. Easiest way to replace the DU bushings? Send strut to Bilstien for rebuild. I chose to source the bushings from an industrial supplier (Elephant has them for sale as well I believe) and fabricate a puller on a slide hammer to pull the old bushings out, then press the new bushings back in. Getting the bushings out is the hard part...
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1978 SC Targa |
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05-13-2021, 01:56 PM
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DU Bush -
 
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1978 SC Targa |
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05-13-2021, 02:09 PM
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Right - thanks a lot. Searched pages of threads - got a general idea and decided to pull the spare strut apart. Now I get it. The chrome insert is a sealed unit, with rubber bump stops at bottom. No worry about heaps of oil spewing. The bushes sit inside the outer strut tube. I can see 3 in there.
I could not detect any play - but I am prepared to re fit this one and see what happens. Meantime will make up a tool to extract the bushes while I wait for some new ones. Will sort an order. I have a 930 and SC so a job I probably need to nail at some point. Will post something when I get the extraction nailed. The bushes will be some weeks away. I have quite a bit of grease in there on the bushes. I see in one of the threads they say not to use grease - destroys the teflon coating. Light oil suggested. Anyone got experience on that? Thinking ahead to the install. Thanks Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) Last edited by Alan L; 05-13-2021 at 03:31 PM.. |
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05-13-2021, 03:29 PM
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Look into compounds like this, which fills gaps of up to 0.015" and has a 3,000 psi shear strength: https://www.vibra-tite.com/retaining-compounds/vibra-tite-538-high-strength-retaining-compound/
It would probably take 350°+ heat to remove the bearing race in the future (which would be fun when the bearing grease catches fire), but it could be an option of last resort.
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URO Parts Online Catalog for Porsche: https://apaindustries.com/catalog?make=2 |
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05-13-2021, 03:49 PM
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Right - thanks for link. Had wondered about something like that - just dubious if it would take the punishment.
Have just ordered some 50mm long bushes from UK. ERacing didn't seem to have them listed, Summit Racing did, but out of stock. Got some on the way. Happy to try this first. Now to get the old ones out. The fact there are 3 in there suggests may have been an issue previous. Anyone know if there is a specified depth for the bottom one. Is there a lip to seat on? I have measured the top and bottom - but mine are 50mm and the old ones look like 40. Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) |
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05-13-2021, 04:15 PM
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I heard the same thing about grease/teflon. Couldnt resist the urge to smear a bit of grease on the cartridge when I reinstalled though... In the link I posted above, you can see the business end of the puller I made. It works on a slide hammer and was a major pain to get the bushings to move. If I do it again I'll have to come up with a better puller...
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1978 SC Targa |
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05-13-2021, 04:16 PM
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Yeah - I am working on a plan. I have a lathe and a press. Still work in progress with no determined outcome/method yet.
FWIW I refitted the shock to the tube and looked for play. Zero. This is on the strut I had removed previously because I could not get rid of the bearing play. Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) |
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05-13-2021, 08:46 PM
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It's a 914 ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
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The shock bushes in the struct can definitely cause a knock that feels like a loose wheel bearing. I had that exact problem on my racecar in fact.
Before you start replacing things, I'd look again at the spindle. If there is a detectable lip (i.e. can catch a nail on it), this isn't good. I have seen spindles worn like this. It will cause a wheel bearing knock, and there is no fix aside from replacing the strut. (I have heard that replacement spindles were available at one time, but I can't see how this would be worth the effort.) You should be able to tell definitively whether the bushing or the spindle is a source of your problem. When my shock/strut bushings were worn, I finally noticed that I could feel the movement between the lower portion of the strut housing relative to the shock insert. You should be able to detect it by placing a finger between the strut dust cap and the strut, and shake the strut until you get the knock. If the play is in the bushings, you'll feel it there. Last edited by stownsen914; 05-14-2021 at 09:59 AM.. |
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05-14-2021, 09:00 AM
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Spindle wear on the bottom is not that uncommon. And yes, the cure is expensive, new struts. Been there, done that.
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05-14-2021, 09:58 AM
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I ask this as my front end has been clicking for years now with several new wheel bearings and new bushings in the Bilstein strut housings.
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1982 911SC Last edited by David Inc.; 05-14-2021 at 10:36 AM.. |
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05-14-2021, 10:29 AM
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I can feel the lip on the spindle. So I am thinking a new strut - but will check the bushings won't fix it first.
"What are the telltales of spindle wear? Does it sound like bearing growl or more like clicking?" Basically a clunk when you wobble the front wheel - same as a slack wheel bearing. Which basically it is. Except in the outer race rather then inner. Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-) |
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05-14-2021, 12:00 PM
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TTS
911SC
BRG
