Static Underbelly A/C Condenser v. Front Left Fender A/C Condenser
 

It's that time of year folks. Yes, it's time for us Porsche nuts to pepper the Pelican board with questions concerning air conditioning.

I've been debating whether to install the Performance Aire underbelly condenser or put a C2-type condenser with a cooling fan into the front left fender.

Has anyone installed a condenser in their front left fender? What kind of results have you gotten?

Thanks, all. SmileWavy

I guy in the local PCA used to have a 911 with a slightly rollled rear condensor in the driver's side fender w/o a fan. He said it worked great and when he turned it on for me it did seem to put out very cool air quickly.
I too am considering this swap as well, if I ever get the time to do it...

What do you mean by "slightly rolled?" Thanks!

It was slightly curved to conform to the curve of the fender. This way it it started just in front of the tire then followed the contour of the fender which it was mounted close to. It stayed well above the tire, and the car had been lowered.

I've got a fan cooled AC primary condensor in the drivers side rear quarter (were the oil tank would be if it were on the drivers side). The discharge of the compressor goes to that one first and then to the decklid condensor. It works well. I like the idea of rejecting the bulk of the heat load in the fender instead of the engine lid air intake. Giffiths sells that setup. My car came from TX and the PO spent some money to get the AC to work. Summer time in Dallas and no AC = sweaty driver?

Scott, the previous owner of my '78SC, Seadweller, installed a fender mounted condenser in the driver side rear fender. It is behind the tire. I also have the decklid mounted condenser, and so far it has performed very well. I have never tried to cool the car it has been in the hot sun, though.

I would really like to get a 964 tail, but that will have to wait until I get an IROC front bumper. I have thoughts of installing a condenser in the front bumper. That should provide the ultimate cooling.

Does the C2 setup have only one condenser? You really cannot have too much airflow, within reason, and a fan on a condenser is OK, but not great. I am not an HVAC expert, but airflow is of utmost importance for good performance. Reduce airflow to the condensing unit and performance stalls. Reduce airflow across the evaporator and performance really stalls.

Jurgen

Jurgen: If I install the condenser in the front left fender, I will still keep the factory rear deck and front condensers. The system will have three condensers -- one in the back, one in the fender, and one up front. Two of them (the fender and front) would have fans.

For the $, go with the 993 fender mount condenser with the fan. I priced them at around $400 for a complete unit (condenser, fan, protective shroud and mount bracket) but you might find one for less if your shop around and have time to keep calling the various Porsche salavage yards. Same price as the Performance Aire static condenser. Problem with the static condenser is that it is much less effective if your not moving (ie : no air flow to take the heat away) and it will heat the floor with out a heat barrier.

What would it take to mount the 993 condenser in the 911 fenderwell? Will I have to fabricate brackets?

Thou shalt free the balls off a squirrel at thirty paces. :)

Seriously, I have heard that condenser and evaporator sizes are matched. For peak performance, if you go really big with the condenser, one could enlarge the evaporator. Maybe a larger orifice valve... I dunno. This is out of my league. I am sure what you are proposing will work well.

jurgen

Well on my 78 it would require dropping the massive windshield/headlight washer bottle. I've already done that and plan to use an older style 65-69 bottle. It holds less but I don't care. It might take some work to figure out how to mount it around the headlight bucket. I know the 993 headlight units are large as well but I've never tried to size one up to see how it would fit. Once the SC gets on the road I know where I can go to do a trial fit.

I don't have the 993 condenser setup yet so I can't give you details on the mounting. I do know that the windshield washer fluid tank has to be removed (relocated somewhere?) to mount the unit. There are people on the list that have done this and can give more info. One guy I know here in Dallas has removed both the front and rear condensers and only has the 993 unit. His vent temps are low to mid 40's on 100 degree days. If your replumbing your AC with new hoses, I recommend removing the rear condenser so your not preheating the air going into the motor when the AC is in use..

Yes, the 964/993 units have only one condensor. Their secret to good a/c is 2 fold. Better placement of the condensor and a much better system for the evaporator.
After looking at those parallel flow condensors I might be willing to try that route.
I am definitely going to dump that engine lid mounted condensor, preheated air is definitely a no-no on an air cooled car.

Edited:
I looked at my 78's fenderwell today. Even w/o the water bottle in there, I think there could be some clearance problems. The height looks like it might be okay but the width could be a problem. I wouldn't think the 930s would have the same issue as their fenders are wider.

I have decided to add the 964 condenser/fan etc. to my '88. The one question I have is whether to keep the rear condenser, front condenser, or neither. Anyone have any suggestions or experience with this? One other thing - if the evaporator on the 964 is superior, will it also work in an '88?
(Re-doing hoses is not a problem since I have the crimping tool and hose).
Thanks in advance -

I'm almost certain the evaporator for the 964 is encased in the climate control box. Have you ever looked at one? You could probably get it out, but I don't know if a salvage would sell separate it.

Keep the front and lose the rear. The more condenser, the better the cooling. Put the fender mount first in line after the compressor since that is where you'll get the largest temperature differential. Replace the drier while your in there replacing the line and replace the expansion valve since they are relatively cheap insurance for working AC. Dirt or moisture in an expansion valve can cause problems and you don't want to have to evac and charge the system a second time. Replacing the line isn't hard but it is dirty and time consuming to get a good fit. I haven't seen the 964 evaporator setup (ie: the smugglers box) so I don't know about how it might fit in the SC.

Thanks for the replies. After researching this further, my decision is that I am going to eliminate the rear condenser and run the hose direct from the compressor to the new condenser in the front fender.

Let us know what you find out about the 964 evaporator. I may want to do that upgrade if it works.

I've seen the evaporator from BEHR so it may be something could be ordered from them as well, instead of parting from a vehicle.

For what it is worth I had a 911 owner call in today and he Told me that by blocking of the outer vents his A-C blew much cooler out the center vents, He was from Las Vegas so I thought I would pass it on.Below is a photo or the Rear Fender mounted Condenser:



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/ICE.gif

According to my owners manual for a 78SC if the car is factory equipped with A/C then only air conditioned air is blown through the center and side vents. So if his is factory blocking off the distribution to the side vents would increase the amount of air through the center vent.

I have been contimplating this upgrade for a while so a few questions.
Does anyone have a picture of this 964/993 condenser? Would it fit in the rear fenderwell like the Griffiths unit, anyone found a universal parrallel flow condenser that will fit in the rear fender? Anyone used the Griffiths unit? Who else sells the underbelly static condenser besides Performance Aire?

Thanks

Eric

This may help.

www.ACKits.com Parallel flow sizes and prices.


Condenser (14 X 22.5)
Item # 12-0437C $ 81.40 plus freight.

Condenser (14 X 26.5)
Item # 12-0438C $ 82.05 plus freight.

Condenser (12 X 22.5)
Item # 12-0439C $ 71.60 plus freight.

Condenser (12 X 26.5)
Item # 12-0440C $ 75.41 plus freight.

Condenser (19 X 30.5)
Item # 12-0511A $ 139.31 plus freight.

Condenser (14 X 20.5)
Item # 12-0544C $ 85.47 plus freight.

Condenser (15.5 X 31.5)
Item # 12-0568A $ 99.90 plus freight.

Condenser (10.5 X 27.5)
Item # 12-0632A $ 89.91 plus freight.

Condenser (14 X 19.5)
Item # 2046AE $ 69.93 plus freight.

The 964/993 units sits in the front, drivers side fender. You can't see it because it is protected by a plastic cover. From memory I want to say it is slightly bigger than an average sized laptop of course it is thicker.

I've got a schematic of it, but it is a thumbnail size. I'll try to get the larger version and post it.

I have a problem with placing another condensor in the drivers side rear fender area. For one, I can feel the heat coming off my catalytic converter several feet away from the car. Putting something that is designed to cool liquid in a place like that seems a little foolish to me. When the vehicle is moving the air movement may be fine, but when the car is standing still...

Here are the pics...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/ACCondensor2.jpg

Well, I went and did a rough measurement of the inner driver fender area where the condensor would be mounted. Rough width would be about 9 inches with a rough length of around 15 inches. The condensors shown above would be to large to fit. :(
Of course this is just a rough estimate of the space and I haven't looked to see if the site sells smaller ones.

The kit that Griffiths sells puts the 964 style condenser in the driver's side rear wheel well behind the tire.

And yes, If I am in my car and I close both passenger's side vents the air comes out more forcefully on the driver's side which results in much better cooling.

The sizes shown above are the only sizes available from ACKits. It appears that they are the typical configurations available as a universal part.

You know what's killing me?

I'm in the process of selling a '98 Ford Taurus (not mine)...this car has the coldest freakin A/C. To the point that I have to turn it off when on standard mode (not Max AC) and it's in the 90s and humid here.

Stupid Question: Can't I rip an AC system out of a junked Ford, get new hoses and fit it up to the 911? Or better yet, what makes the Ford system so much better?

American engineering and manufacturing, of course!

Uh, when Porsche decided that it needed good a/c in the 911 we got it; it just doesn't help the thousands of 911s produced before the 964.
For one thing the older cars use a poor system of pulling in air to extract heat from. The older the car the poorer the seals. In my 78 it is actually pulling in some hot air from the hood area simply because the original equipment has deteriorated to a point where it no longer circulates only cabin air. After being cooled it has to go through a poor ventilation system not designed to our current standards. If you look at the HVAC system for the 964/993 the evaporators are directly behind the dash area. The whole system is enclosed and is a very modern design compared to the aftermarket system Porsche chose to put in as factory air.

If you compare a 1985 Ford pinto a/c with a 1985 Porsche a/c they about the same, and if you compare a 1998 Ford Taurus with a 1998 Porsche 911 a/c they about the same, however I think I will take the Porsche anytime over a Fix Or Repair Daily
(F.O.R.D)

American cars have always had better A/C than European cars. If you've ever been to Germany it's so cool over there in the summer they don't even have screens on the windows of the houses. Why? It hardly ever gets hot enough to open the windows. Consequently, Germans never cared about good A/C in their cars because if it ain't required in Germany, then no one needs it. This was the German attitude prior to the early '90's.

Ruf, I challenge you to find one Pinto with A/C. Those were basic transportation cars and those who bought then couldn't afford such luxuries.

I own two Fords and when they left the dealer they never had to go back for anything.

Funny that a guy who owns Lotus' (if a Lotus runs for a week straight it's considered a keeper) is flaming Fords for reliability.

The Lotus 52 has an English Ford Cortina block in it. Fix Or Reapir Daily was coin by someone else long before I started playing with cars.

The last Pinto that I saw was on the Autobahn in Germany doing 50 mph in the right hand lane while everyone else was in the left hand fast lane. I thought that he was going to get rear ended and explode. This was back in1985. Are there any Pinto left in this world?

911nut if you like American cars so much why are you driving a PORSCHE?

There are plenty of American two seaters, Corvette, New Ford T-bird, Viper, Prowlers................just curious