Static Underbelly A/C Condenser v. Front Left Fender A/C Condenser

scottb · 06-24-2003, 09:38 AM

It's that time of year folks. Yes, it's time for us Porsche nuts to pepper the Pelican board with questions concerning air conditioning.

I've been debating whether to install the Performance Aire underbelly condenser or put a C2-type condenser with a cooling fan into the front left fender.

Has anyone installed a condenser in their front left fender? What kind of results have you gotten?

Thanks, all.

plain fan · 06-24-2003, 09:46 AM

I guy in the local PCA used to have a 911 with a slightly rollled rear condensor in the driver's side fender w/o a fan. He said it worked great and when he turned it on for me it did seem to put out very cool air quickly.
I too am considering this swap as well, if I ever get the time to do it...

scottb · 06-24-2003, 09:50 AM

What do you mean by "slightly rolled?" Thanks!

plain fan · 06-24-2003, 10:02 AM

It was slightly curved to conform to the curve of the fender. This way it it started just in front of the tire then followed the contour of the fender which it was mounted close to. It stayed well above the tire, and the car had been lowered.

Jadams1 · Jadams1's Garage

I've got a fan cooled AC primary condensor in the drivers side rear quarter (were the oil tank would be if it were on the drivers side). The discharge of the compressor goes to that one first and then to the decklid condensor. It works well. I like the idea of rejecting the bulk of the heat load in the fender instead of the engine lid air intake. Giffiths sells that setup. My car came from TX and the PO spent some money to get the AC to work. Summer time in Dallas and no AC = sweaty driver?

turbo6bar · 06-24-2003, 05:16 PM

Scott, the previous owner of my '78SC, Seadweller, installed a fender mounted condenser in the driver side rear fender. It is behind the tire. I also have the decklid mounted condenser, and so far it has performed very well. I have never tried to cool the car it has been in the hot sun, though.

I would really like to get a 964 tail, but that will have to wait until I get an IROC front bumper. I have thoughts of installing a condenser in the front bumper. That should provide the ultimate cooling.

Does the C2 setup have only one condenser? You really cannot have too much airflow, within reason, and a fan on a condenser is OK, but not great. I am not an HVAC expert, but airflow is of utmost importance for good performance. Reduce airflow to the condensing unit and performance stalls. Reduce airflow across the evaporator and performance really stalls.

Jurgen

scottb · 06-24-2003, 07:27 PM

Jurgen: If I install the condenser in the front left fender, I will still keep the factory rear deck and front condensers. The system will have three condensers -- one in the back, one in the fender, and one up front. Two of them (the fender and front) would have fans.

jdowty3 · jdowty3's Garage

For the $, go with the 993 fender mount condenser with the fan. I priced them at around $400 for a complete unit (condenser, fan, protective shroud and mount bracket) but you might find one for less if your shop around and have time to keep calling the various Porsche salavage yards. Same price as the Performance Aire static condenser. Problem with the static condenser is that it is much less effective if your not moving (ie : no air flow to take the heat away) and it will heat the floor with out a heat barrier.

scottb · 06-24-2003, 08:47 PM

What would it take to mount the 993 condenser in the 911 fenderwell? Will I have to fabricate brackets?

turbo6bar · 06-25-2003, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scottb
The system will have three condensers -- one in the back, one in the fender, and one up front. Two of them (the fender and front) would have fans.

Thou shalt free the balls off a squirrel at thirty paces.

Seriously, I have heard that condenser and evaporator sizes are matched. For peak performance, if you go really big with the condenser, one could enlarge the evaporator. Maybe a larger orifice valve... I dunno. This is out of my league. I am sure what you are proposing will work well.

jurgen

plain fan · 06-25-2003, 06:58 AM

Well on my 78 it would require dropping the massive windshield/headlight washer bottle. I've already done that and plan to use an older style 65-69 bottle. It holds less but I don't care. It might take some work to figure out how to mount it around the headlight bucket. I know the 993 headlight units are large as well but I've never tried to size one up to see how it would fit. Once the SC gets on the road I know where I can go to do a trial fit.

jdowty3 · jdowty3's Garage

I don't have the 993 condenser setup yet so I can't give you details on the mounting. I do know that the windshield washer fluid tank has to be removed (relocated somewhere?) to mount the unit. There are people on the list that have done this and can give more info. One guy I know here in Dallas has removed both the front and rear condensers and only has the 993 unit. His vent temps are low to mid 40's on 100 degree days. If your replumbing your AC with new hoses, I recommend removing the rear condenser so your not preheating the air going into the motor when the AC is in use..

plain fan · 10:30 AM

Yes, the 964/993 units have only one condensor. Their secret to good a/c is 2 fold. Better placement of the condensor and a much better system for the evaporator.
After looking at those parallel flow condensors I might be willing to try that route.
I am definitely going to dump that engine lid mounted condensor, preheated air is definitely a no-no on an air cooled car.

Edited:
I looked at my 78's fenderwell today. Even w/o the water bottle in there, I think there could be some clearance problems. The height looks like it might be okay but the width could be a problem. I wouldn't think the 930s would have the same issue as their fenders are wider.

Thomas Owen · 06-26-2003, 06:54 AM

I have decided to add the 964 condenser/fan etc. to my '88. The one question I have is whether to keep the rear condenser, front condenser, or neither. Anyone have any suggestions or experience with this? One other thing - if the evaporator on the 964 is superior, will it also work in an '88?
(Re-doing hoses is not a problem since I have the crimping tool and hose).
Thanks in advance -

plain fan · 06-26-2003, 09:37 AM

I'm almost certain the evaporator for the 964 is encased in the climate control box. Have you ever looked at one? You could probably get it out, but I don't know if a salvage would sell separate it.

jdowty3 · jdowty3's Garage

Keep the front and lose the rear. The more condenser, the better the cooling. Put the fender mount first in line after the compressor since that is where you'll get the largest temperature differential. Replace the drier while your in there replacing the line and replace the expansion valve since they are relatively cheap insurance for working AC. Dirt or moisture in an expansion valve can cause problems and you don't want to have to evac and charge the system a second time. Replacing the line isn't hard but it is dirty and time consuming to get a good fit. I haven't seen the 964 evaporator setup (ie: the smugglers box) so I don't know about how it might fit in the SC.

Thomas Owen · 06-26-2003, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the replies. After researching this further, my decision is that I am going to eliminate the rear condenser and run the hose direct from the compressor to the new condenser in the front fender.

jdowty3 · jdowty3's Garage

Let us know what you find out about the 964 evaporator. I may want to do that upgrade if it works.

plain fan · 06-26-2003, 05:57 PM

I've seen the evaporator from BEHR so it may be something could be ordered from them as well, instead of parting from a vehicle.

SteveStromberg · 09:53 PM

For what it is worth I had a 911 owner call in today and he Told me that by blocking of the outer vents his A-C blew much cooler out the center vents, He was from Las Vegas so I thought I would pass it on.Below is a photo or the Rear Fender mounted Condenser: