1977 911S —> Questions

[Gonbad]

Ok I have started tearing down the back of my 911. I have found a few things I have questions about. To begin this car has over 200k miles on it. The engine runs pretty good but has lots of leaks. The 915 transmission leaks too and well feels like it has 200k+ miles on it. So everything is coming out and getting ready to drop the engine and transmission.



1: Is this the upgraded sway bar mount or stock?



2: Is this the turbo style valve cover?



3: Where do you send the oil tank to get cleaned and tested? Cerakote outside?



4: Which oil cooler version is this?



5: Is the black undercoating the stock stuff or is it the silver textured stuff underneath? The black is peeling off all over the underside of the car.




6: Are these the SSi exhaust?




Appreciate the help!

[Gonbad]

I don’t know if this engine or transmission has ever been apart. The plan is to rebuild the transmission. I know the 2.7 mag cases have issues so while I have it out check the head studs for broken ones or if they have pulled the threads from the case. Check the chain tensioners. It looks like they have been upgraded to the oil fed Carrera ones. Go through rocker shafts, seals and adjust the valves. Check leak down on the cylinders. Clean everything and clean everything some more. Then on to pulling all the suspension out. It’s tired and really needs some TLC. The rear swaybar basically fell off as the end link bushings were gone. So it begins.

[Winter]

Question #2: to my unprofessional eye, that appears to be a turbo valve cover.

Good luck with your car.

[Gonbad]

Originally Posted by Winter

Question #2: to my unprofessional eye, that appears to be a turbo valve cover.

Good luck with your car.

Cool and great.

Thanks

[fanaudical]

#1 - That's a stock sway bar mount. Look for cracking.

#2 - That looks to be a turbo valve cover.

#3 - Pacific Oil Cooler does a great job with oil tank and engine cooler testing, reconditioning, and inspection:

https://www.oilcoolers.com/contact-us/

I sent my engine oil cooler to them for cleaning/inspection. I stripped the parts off my oil tank, took it to a local machine ship that hot-tanked it. I then repainted it with engine enamel.

#4 - Sorry - I'm not sure about the oil cooler. I thought '77 had the trombone cooler.

#5 - The black is road grime. Some Simple Green and a stiff brush should remove it.

#6 - Those look to be Porsche pre-75 exhaust. SSI's are full stainless steel and look just like those only shiny. It's possible those are very dirty. If a magnet readily sticks then they're just factory steel and not stainless SSI's.

I have a '75 Targa that I rebuilt and still have. Some things I recommend/learned along the way:

Rebuilding a 2.7 isn't cheap. I rebuilt mine. Somebody suggested at the start of my project to consider finding a used 3.0 and rebuilding it if needed. There were days that I wished I had listened. If I had to rebuild today I think I would go that route.

Unless you're attached to CIS, it may be time to look at alternate induction. EFI kits are so much easier to piece together now than when I started my project. I fought a bit of CIS trouble.

And the "general stuff":

Pull the carpet and get into the tunnel while the engine/trans is out. Replace all the fuel lines. Look at moving the fuel pump forward if yours is installed in back. Definitely do the suspension while the engine is out. Pull the entire shift linkage/rod and completely rebuild that before putting the engine back in. Rebuild the pedal cluster and all the throttle linkages while you're in there. Look at PMB for brake caliper rebuild/exchange. Replace all the brake lines. Look at all the wiring and upgrade/fix while things are apart. Consider changing that long cable between the battery and the starter.

It's easier to take the whole car apart and put it together right than it is to tackle portions and drive it in-between mini-projects. If you're going to have the car painted then absolutely strip it to the shell and do it right.

[PeteKz]

In addition to fanaudical's excellent comments, let me ask: What's your budget? How will you split that among the various sections?

Like him, I highly recommend that you rebuild a 3.0/3.2 engine, or even buy one already done. Your old 2.7 will need several thousand dollars of case work that a 3.0/3.2 won't need, not to mention months of waiting before you can start assembling it. If you go this route, you can build the engine in parallel, and keep driving the car as-is until you are ready to do the swap (plus tranny rebuild). The delays rebuilding the engine are longer than the delays rebuilding the tranny.

Unlike fanaudical, I recommend that you try to keep it a "driving project." Assess your and your son's time and skill and determination to do a full restoration. Those take years, and your son will probably be off to college before it's done. A driving restoration will keep the motivation up, and provide more fun in the meantime.

[Gonbad]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Unlike fanaudical, I recommend that you try to keep it a "driving project." Assess your and your son's time and skill and determination to do a full restoration. Those take years, and your son will probably be off to college before it's done. A driving restoration will keep the motivation up, and provide more fun in the meantime.

Thanks for the advice. I have had the car for two years and we have been enjoying it.




High school Christmas parade last year and the Tail of the Dragon 🐉 while driving back to Texas. He and I drove the car from Connecticut back to Texas shortly after I bought it.

The engine runs well. I don’t plan on messing with it if it’s sound. The plan is to rebuild the transmission and completely redo the suspension. The exterior is ok looking from 20 feet but it needs a repaint. It is structurally rust free. Just surface corrosion in spots. Previous owner put new window seals, door seals, recovered the seats and a few other things before it sat for like 10 years in Virginia.

Budget isn’t really a concern fortunately. My son and I are quite capable of rebuilding the transmission or anything else on this car. My father-in-law is a retired engineer/machinist and he spends his spare time building experimental aircraft. So we don’t lack resources.

If the engine isn’t sound then who knows what I’ll do but it it’ll be very cool and very fast. I have been racing Corvettes, Ferrari’s and motorcycles since I figured out how to use a clutch! The first time my son drove a manual transmission was this 911. He currently drives a 97 Silverado 4x4 with a 5 speed manual.

So yes lots of plans and more father son time ahead.




My son putting a new clutch in his truck this past summer and helping put the new lift and A/C in the garage. Everyone needs a lift and climate control in their garage but especially in Texas.

[Otter74]

I’ll suggest saving paint for last. Is spending $10k+ on paint (unless you know a painter, too) worth it? It is for some people, maybe you, definitely not me. My 911 also has a paint job that looks nice from 20 feet but not so good up close. Has affected my tremendous enjoyment of the car 0%. I did just $pend the money for body and paint on my Fiat but that’s because it needed rust repair. Speaking of father-son projects, that Fiat was the father-son project from when I was a teenager, so I love this aspect of your car. I wish my dad were still around to share my Fiat and my 911 with.

[thetorch]

#4 is a brass Rest Of World oil cooler. These are excellent coolers.

[dannichols1474]

I just got done doing the project you are starting with my 75 Carrera. The idea of building a 3.0 or 3.2 engine is good, but my car has the original engine and trans so I decided to rebuild the 2.7 - I went to 92 mm cylinders and 92 mm 9.5:1 pistons so I ended up with at 2808cc.

I spent extra $$ to install inserts on all of the case studs not just the head studs, shave the case halves flat, line bore back to standard, oil bypass modification, shuffle pins install. I also had the crank and rods rebuilt and balanced. Ollies Engineering in Lake Havasu City, AZ did the work which took 4 months and cost $5k.

The heads, cam towers and rockers went to Craig Garrett at G2 Performance in Grand Rapids, MI. Cost was $3k and took 6 weeks.

I bought a CIS to ITB EFI conversion kit from Al Kosmal / X-faktory.com.

I bought Wayne Dempsey's book, "How to Rebuild and Modify Porsche 911 Engines 1965-1989", read it, and rebuilt the engine myself with help from members on this forum (see the thread "CIS to ITB EFI Conversion").

I contacted William Knight (KNIGHTRACE) for engine design help and I installed his K45 camshafts and exhaust headers.

The transmission went to California Motorsports (CMS) in Lake Havasu City, AZ for rebuild with several upgrades for improved reliability. My trans was in pretty good shape so no new gears were needed. Cost of my rebuild was $10.5k and took 5 weeks.

When I got the car back together, I carefully went through the break-in procedure (and frequent oil/filter changes) and did a couple of dyno tune / test sessions getting the EFI tuning dialed in. It was a great learning experience and I got a satisfying result, but I had to be patient as the whole process took over 6 months to complete.

Good luck with your DIY project and have fun!

[fanaudical]

A couple more thoughts:

I did keep mine as a driving project but in doing so I found later that I missed some stuff - and so it came apart again. Looking back it would have been more efficient to just do it all at once. But it was still fun as a driving project. Pick what works for you. For me, I find wrenching and driving equally enjoyable except for when I'm wrenching and would rather be driving...

My car also has bad paint. I vinyl wrapped the whole car. It's been pretty liberating - I'm not worried about a fancy paint job. Something happens (and it has) and I just peel off a section and re-wrap it. Most people can't tell it's a wrap unless I tell them. It might be an option for you.

Everybody's journey with these cars is different. I've enjoyed mine. It looks like your getting a good start with yours. Have fun and make it your car!

[Gonbad]

I don’t know if this is the original engine and transmission or not. I actually got a lot of records with the car and nothing mentions rebuilds or replacements.

I am only the third owner. 2 owners in Virginia then bought by Unobtanium in New York then sold to me.

Someone has done some work on it previously to get things straightened out.

The sunroof works perfectly and doesn’t leak. It has all new felts/seals and lines. The door seals along with the quarter window seals are new. It has one new rear caliper. It has new carpet and seat upholstery. Plus in the past the thermal reactors and the five bladed fan disappeared. Which is probably why this engine is still kicking along.

On the flip side of that coin it shifts like a tank and the suspension is shot. The rear bushings for the torsion bars are gone. The spring plates look like they have never been removed before. It had a horribly prepped paint job previously that is bubbling up and flaking off (not rust).

So it’s perfect for what I want. It’s not pristine, it’s a middie, so I won’t feel bad about tearing into some future high value restoration candidate. So my son and I will hot rod / outlaw whatever to our liking.

[PeteKz]

I used to think that I wanted a really nice pant job, and that stalled my projectt for many years. I finally put it back together and started driving it. A lot. I don't miss the paint job, and as much as I drive it, I know the paint would get chipped up again. screw it. Keep the "patina." And drive the snot out of it.

Suspension and other repairs or upgrades can be done a little at a time without pulling the car off the road for months/years. Start there. Do the front first, then the rear.

[fanaudical]

As long as you have the engine out you may as well do the rear suspension - especially if the bushings are shot.

I found that Rennline offers adjustable rear spring plates with bushings installed for a reasonable price (available through our host). Don't go too stiff on torsion bars.