Windshield/Headlamp Washers Inop

[dnjvan]

Just discovered that both the windshield washer and headlamp washer are inop. Went looking for the pumps with about 50% success. I have the factory manuals, and they're generally great, but in this case, shows the pump, but not where in the car it is. Says there are supposed to be two separate pumps, one for windshield, one for headlamps.

So, it appears one of them is way up front just left of the jack stowage. Found the fuse blown in that one, but replacing the fuse didn't help. I can't find a second pump.

Anybody had to work on this system? Anybody know where the second one is on those cars that have two? My next try will be to blow out the lines (especially from the reservoir to the pump) and make sure it's getting fluid. Then go from there.

Any thoughts anybody has will be appreciated. Thanks.

[GH85Carrera]

The headlight washer pump is on the bottom of the large black tank in the front fender. I had to drop the tank to get it out. It is a large grey pump.

[EC900]

I don’t have headlamp washers but did manage to rebuild the windshield pump.
Besides corroded contacts, the gears were calcified from decades hard California water that dried up.

Easy to dismantle the pump, soak in LimeAway, but the gasket is so thin and degraded it eventually leaked, so I bought a new one.
Rather than trying to my clean lines, which were filled with heavy slime, I eventually replaced them.

The windshield pump is quite noisy so you’ll know it working - clogged or not. No noise = no power. Check connections the pump is marked + and - on the unit. Brown is (-) ground. Since taking out of the car, you can use a 12v battery and jumper wires check it’s moving freely or frozen or kaput.

Once if power is established, simply set up a temporary water bottle with a 1/4” hose inserted and attached to one side of the pump (inlet) and an empty bottle with another hose to the other pump (outlet) collect the water. Then operate the washer stalk This will at least let you know pump is functioning.

Then go on to replace lines, even though they may look ok but yellowed, the crud is clinging to the walls and with eventually flake off and clog the check valves at the windshield nozzles.
Replacing check valves if I recall is a tight task to access. I managed to pull the line off nozzles and add extra length of line then put check valves back on. Check valve can be cleaned as well but takes time to shake out any leftover line debris. Did this twice - so not worth keeping old hose lines.

Since you’ll be removing the washer reservoir make just to clean it out and inspect inside for any calcium deposit, etc.

[dnjvan]

Thanks, fellers. I guess I know what I'm doing next week.

[Missed Approach]

Hi dnjvan- Here's my story on both issues- hope this helps!

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/894736-washer-pump-easier-than-expected.html

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/987971-weak-washer-system-solved-mold.html

[Nick Triesch]

I thought my washers were not working on my 85 Carrera. It turns out they only work while driving at speed!! And great at that!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

I thought my washers were not working on my 85 Carrera. It turns out they only work while driving at speed!! And great at that!

The windshield washers will indeed work at 0 speed.

The headlight washers only work if the headlights are on. They are two different pumps.

[dnjvan]

Wow. That's a lot of great information. Thanks.

Soooo

the little washer pump way up front (right by the AC blower and the jack) is the windshield washer pump, right? And the headlamp pump is back at the washer reservoir. Hmmm.

The pics help immensely. And knowing that the headlamp washer only works when the lights are on is great too. Maybe it works. Can't wait to try it.

[Missed Approach]

Originally Posted by dnjvan

Wow. That's a lot of great information. Thanks.

Soooo

the little washer pump way up front (right by the AC blower and the jack) is the windshield washer pump, right? And the headlamp pump is back at the washer reservoir. Hmmm.

The pics help immensely. And knowing that the headlamp washer only works when the lights are on is great too. Maybe it works. Can't wait to try it.

Hi dnjvan- Thanks!- you are correct on the location of both units. As mentioned in my "easier than expected" post, removing the AC blower really helped in accessing the windshield washer pump.

[ccallana]

I thought all 3 of my washers (headlight, windscreen, intensive) were busted - fix was pretty simple -

both the Headlight washer, and the Intensive washer dash switches were non-functional. Wicked easy fix.

Then I had to change out the 4 check-valves which help maintain fluid in the lines right up at the window

Once I did that - everyone works great.. I do still need to re-aim them a bit though

[dnjvan]

Like most of this stuff, it won't make complete sense until I get it all apart I guess. The dash switch for the headlamp washer doesn't "feel" right, so I'm going to start by replacing that and see where I am. Would be nice if that fixed the headlamp system, but I'm rarely that lucky.

So, there was one post suggesting the windshield washer doesn't work until the car is moving, but another saying that wasn't the case. So, should it work just sitting still? Need to do do a little electrical diagnosing before too much else on that system just to see if electrons are getting to the pump before I start taking too much stuff apart.

OK, now for a couple really dumb questions:

What is this "high intensity" system? No mention of it in the book that I saw. Is that separate from, but in the same place as the headlamp tank and pump?

If the tank for the headlamp system is up in the wheel well, how does it fill? (I know once I get it apart I'll understand, but I'm clinging too the hope that the switch will fix it and i won't get there.)

Thanks in advance.

BTW, is "Missed Approach" and aviation reference?

[EC900]

I read the intensive washer switch is a rocker “momentary switch” under the dash, so might may that be your query?
Does it utilize the same pump - I don’t know, I don’t it, but have circuit with its separate switch likely bypasses the stalk pull operation.

The intensive system had a separate small tank to the left of the fuse panel. It was to be filled with a specialized windshield cleaning sauce.
These small tanks (1 qt) are $$$, hard to find and nice to have to replace the 2 gal. bulky fender reservoir under the fender. The fill nozzle for the under-fender reservoir is the smaller opening next to gas filler.

The regular windshield washer pump and wipers work with the key in the On position….it how to adjust the nozzle spray pattern.

I don’t recall, did you ever get around to testing if your lines are clean and clear? Also that the check valves at the nozzles are also clean and not clogged? Often these check valve have the tiny screens clogged impeding operation. Most think it’s the pump that the problem.
2¢.

[Missed Approach]

Hi dnjvan- In answer to your questions:

Like most of this stuff, it won't make complete sense until I get it all apart I guess. The dash switch for the headlamp washer doesn't "feel" right, so I'm going to start by replacing that and see where I am. Would be nice if that fixed the headlamp system, but I'm rarely that lucky.

That switch does have an odd feel, it's sort of a half-rocker arrangement, what you are describing does sound like a working switch.

So, there was one post suggesting the windshield washer doesn't work until the car is moving, but another saying that wasn't the case. So, should it work just sitting still? Need to do do a little electrical diagnosing before too much else on that system just to see if electrons are getting to the pump before I start taking too much stuff apart.

The washer works without the need for movement of the vehicle.

OK, now for a couple really dumb questions:

What is this "high intensity" system? No mention of it in the book that I saw. Is that separate from, but in the same place as the headlamp tank and pump?

This is the high-intensity tank- it has its own pump (located at the bottom of the tank) and was designed to use a special cleaner
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PCG04400093.htm?pn=PCG-044-000-93-OEM



It was offered as an option in later models- Petra is a 1986. FYI- it might be helpful to add your year model to your signature.

If the tank for the headlamp system is up in the wheel well, how does it fill? (I know once I get it apart I'll understand, but I'm clinging too the hope that the switch will fix it and i won't get there.)

The fill port for your washer system is located in front of your gas fill port. The big tank holds fluid for both the windshield pump (located in front of your battery) and the headlamp pump (attached to the big tank per my "Mold" post) See the image below...



As an aside, Wayne did a good troubleshooting primer many years ago:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_washer/911_washer.htm


BTW, is "Missed Approach" and aviation reference?

Yes- When you are cleared for an instrument approach and you cannot complete. A good example: you are trying to get into a socked-in Milwaukee Airport on a Thursday at 5pm in the Winter. You are the only non-commercial aircraft of 6 in the pattern. Your autopilot decouples halfway down the pipe. Then lots of folks get angry, and you are put into an indefinite hold for another attempt. Good times.

[dnjvan]

MA:

Thanks.

You're right; I should have included info on the car. It's a 1989 Anniversary coupe.

That info all helps a lot. Thanks.

As for "missed approach," suffice to say I'm more than intimately familiar with the term and the procedure. Just wanted to confirm that's the maneuver referenced by your handle, in case the term was used in some other non-aviation context with which I'm not familiar.

[dnjvan]

OK, so here’s what I learned today.

Regarding the windshield washers: When I activate the system, I have volts to the pump, but hear no pump noise and no fluid comes out. So, likely bad pump, could be bad plumbing too. Seems to be sensible to replace pump, check valves?, make sure lines clear.

Regarding headlamp washers: When I activate the switch, can hear the pump run for about 1 second, then turn off. Maybe it’s supposed to do that? No fluid comes out. If it’s supposed to only run briefly, then I suppose get access to the pump, make sure it has fluid, see if fluid is being pumped, check all lines, etc.

At least I know more than I did yesterday. Thanks to all.

[Missed Approach]

Hi dnjvan- Great! I suspect you are correct with your windshield washer pump being Inop. On the headlamp washer pump, running for 1 second is its correct method of operation. Per Wayne, I would first check if you have fluid in the tank. Per my "Mold" post, you can certainly go to the headlamp line splice under the front lip and see if there is fluid in the line itself (it's also the best location to drain the tank!) Hope this helps!

[GH85Carrera]

The intensive headlight pump only works with the headlights on, and only runs as long as you hold it down. It should squirt enough fluid to cover the entire car in over-spray.

On one trip through northern Utah, my windshield washer gave up the ghost and died. I just used the headlight washers at speed and had enough fluid hit the windshield to use the wipers. And it can suck up some fluid. I had to stop to get gas and added a gallon of washer fluid.

I replaced the windshield washer pump when I got home. The check valves can clog up and prevent fluid come out.

And on my 85, indeed the windshield washer pump will work at 0 speed. On more than one occasion I have started up the car and saw bird droppings on the windshield, and washed it off with the wipers before moving.

[ccallana]

When I got my car a few months ago none of the washers were working -

Ended up having to change the dash switches for both Headlight and Intensive. (I used an aftermarket Headlight switch for both since the Intensive one only had a Porsche version for like 4x the cost - only differences is now both have the headlight picture on them )

New switch fixed the headlight washer. although it squirts so hard it sprays all over the front of the car I fixed it just to say its working - I can't really think of a scenario that I would actually need them.

Then I had to replace all 4 check valves ... now all 3 washers work. The windscreen washers are a bit weak - no width to the spray, but at least it gets there and the wipers don't run on a dry window....

I've considered pulling the front tank and putting an AC condenser up there - but not sure its worth the trouble... I'll just put it in the back wheel well as Griffiths suggests when I get around to the upgrade...

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by ccallana

When I got my car a few months ago none of the washers were working -

Ended up having to change the dash switches for both Headlight and Intensive. (I used an aftermarket Headlight switch for both since the Intensive one only had a Porsche version for like 4x the cost - only differences is now both have the headlight picture on them )

New switch fixed the headlight washer. although it squirts so hard it sprays all over the front of the car I fixed it just to say its working - I can't really think of a scenario that I would actually need them.

Then I had to replace all 4 check valves ... now all 3 washers work. The windscreen washers are a bit weak - no width to the spray, but at least it gets there and the wipers don't run on a dry window....

I've considered pulling the front tank and putting an AC condenser up there - but not sure its worth the trouble... I'll just put it in the back wheel well as Griffiths suggests when I get around to the upgrade...

Yea, the headlight washers don't get much use. I was driving in misty very light rain on a road that had a lot of pickups coming from dirt side roads, and bringing mud onto the highway. There was a brown mist in the air. I used my headlight washers a lot of that trip.



My Grand Prix white car was brown after a while.



It all washed off.

[dnjvan]

Thanks for the confirmations and additional thoughts, guys. I'll get an order in with our host (Pelican Parts) and get started getting dirty.

Just for clarification (since I didn't find any mention in the factory manuals), this "intensive' thing is part of or an enhancement to the headlamp washer? Not sure how to tell for sure that I do or don't have it. However, when I hold the washer switch down, it gives one spurt and stops until I release and re-press. Is that indicative of not having the intensive thing?