Follow-up: Alternator "HUB", pulley, shims, what are my alternatives ?

[H.G.P.]

Here's the current follow up to my outer pulley situation:

1. Put shim(s) (more coming from Pelican next week), belt, NEW pulley, washer, and nut on.

2. Started the car,

3. However the new pulley seems to be falling into a groove/recess between the outer parts of the hub, and what looks like a "grooved" area as the hub gets closer to the alternator. (the wrench holes do not stay matched up after running the engine either.....are they suppose to????)

4. Is this something that more shims (between the alternator and the pulley) will remedy? Or does the alternator have to come out for replacement or repair?

5. Is the hub pulley suppose to be a symmetrical rectangle it's entire extruded length from the alternator itself?

6. What are the alternatives here?

Thanks!

[HarryD]

HGP,

I assume you have 6 shims now.

YOu may need to move some of the shims from betwen the pulley halfs to outside the plley half to tension the belt better.

Can you post some pictures for us to see?

[H.G.P.]

From the Pelican photograph, it looks like the recangular hub goes all the way down to the facing of the alternator, with no "groove" present. I'm going to try to look at some photos/diagrams, of new alternators for reference on what a correct hub should look like.

My concern is that by adding more shims behind the pulley (which possibly would fill the groove) that they might just shred. Or would the shims keep the pulley on what's left of the good area of the hub?

If so how long would it last?, and what effect would it have on the alternator, and maybe even the belt life.


Tomorrow I'll attempt to take more photos.


Note: I think I am refering to the "fan hub" as pictured on page no. 63 photo #5 in Wayne's 101 project book. I have the Hyanes book, I have yet to find a fan photo in it though

Thanks.

[H.G.P.]

From illustration #2 on page 21 of Waynes 101 Projects book, the fan hub appears to have no groove. Mine has a groove, and thus unfortunately, causing the pulley to fall into. Does this mean a new fan?

Thanks

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by H.G.P.

Does this mean a new fan?

Thanks

I'm no pro.. but on the other thread you did about this subject, I posted that you may have an alignment problem.. which you just confirmed.. so maybe I'm smarter than I look/maybe..

but I think you have 3 options.. unless someone who really knows about this does a post.. because it's really not that unusual..............Ron

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by RoninLB
I'm no pro.. but on the other thread you did about this subject, I posted that you may have an alignment problem.. which you just confirmed.. so maybe I'm smarter than I look/maybe..
but I think you have 3 options.. unless someone who really knows about this does a post.. because it's really not that unusual..............Ron

Yes, I've referred to the prior threads, and my main source of the confusion, is/was, the identification of "alternator shaft", vs. "fan hub". Thus it now appears to be worse than an alignment problem, as the pulley falls into the groove, and perhaps might shear more and more of the fan hub.

11 blade fan repair/replacement? Ouch!

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by H.G.P.

as the pulley falls into the groove, and perhaps might shear more and more of the fan hub.
11 blade fan repair/replacement? Ouch!

Exactly.. this is what I meant by alignment problem..

I should have been more clear on what I meant by alignment problem.. maybe I'm not as smart as I look, LOL..

so anyway, my limited brain options are:
--- JB Weld and file away.. this does work. no hard info on this, but it should be good for at least 20k miles, IMO.
--- a TIG and file away.. it's a pro weld, IMO
--- buy a used fan
--- buy a new fan

so anyway, an executive decision is in order soon, IMO .............Ron

[H.G.P.]

Thanks. I might try the JB-weld route if anyone has used it (for this? ) And what kind of JB-Weld for this???). Is heat going to be a problem here while driving, is another question on the bond/regular weld strength.

I may also look into removal and take to a welder.

Thanks again.

[Oldporsche]

Remove the fan and have the groove tig welded up.
File off the excess material.
Replace the fan and your are all set.

You may need to tig weld up the " corners" of the pully hub too. You can then "burr" (grind with dremel?) off that excess too.

Spray paint the correct color and reassemble.

This is a very common problem on 911 alternator fans.

In the past, I have welded 1/4" dia pins into the holes of the alternator pully. This makes the "David Duffield Positive Pin Drive"

Good luck,
David Duffield

[stormcrow]

Let's see if we can figure this out. Based on what you are saying, the pulley (belt) is falling into a grove between the inner hub and outer hub.

If that's the case, then go to a larger belt size to bring it more to the outer diameter of the hubs. This would mean that there would be less shims between the inner/outer hub which would push the belt out towards the top of the hubs.

This should eliminate the problem of the belt going into the groove. Belt sizes are measured by their length. For example my belt is a 0285 which means it is a 28.5" belt from NAPA. When I gave them the modle/year of the P-car they gave me a 0280 belt and it was just a little bit too small. Took it back and increased length by 1/2 inch and it worked. Maybe this is what you have to do to solve your problem

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

[mb911]

Just thought I would chime in. Mine did the same exact thing. I welded it up and filed down and good as new. This problem was caused by not being torqued properly and a bent pulley halve. I simply unhooked the battery and welded while installed. Much easier then removal.

Good luck
Ben

[H.G.P.]

Here are the photos: Photo #1:



Note that only approximately .5mm of hub is left, the groove approx. .55-.60mm across.

Photo 2:

In photo 2 this is the new pulley, shown beyond the good remaining part of the hub (without the shims and other components assembled.) Note how much room there is to "jiggle" and shown here "wiggle".



Thanks for the help everyone.

[mb911]

Yup exact same deal. I guess I am cheap but definitly I would weld it rather than replace whole new fan . Stay away from JB weld as this will not be hard enough in a torsional situation. If you decide to pull the fan off I will weld it up for you for free if you pay shipping.

Ben

77 911 3.0
75 914-6 2.7

PS I am located in Wisconsin and am a welding instructor so I can fix it right. Just an open ended offer

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by mb911
Yup exact same deal. I guess I am cheap but definitly I would weld it rather than replace whole new fan . Stay away from JB weld as this will not be hard enough in a torsional situation. If you decide to pull the fan off I will weld it up for you for free if you pay shipping.

Ben

77 911 3.0
75 914-6 2.7

PS I am located in Wisconsin and am a welding instructor so I can fix it right. Just an open ended offer

Well, I actually went up to Lowes this evening and looked over the welding equipment, which I no nothing about. I looked at :

A. Lincoln 100, and a 135.

B. There were also on display.....Torch "packages" also from Lincoln, with tanks, which I have also never used (nor seen used).

C. Can't seem to find anything on the net on "how to weld", either.

D. However, I think it's time to learn and try, as I do not want future projects to be subject to delay! So I'm debating on purchasing a "kit" as early as tomorrow.

E. I have an automotive book, with a welding section, and it mostly shows what it calls "gas welding.....cylinders and bottles". I think it may be like "B" above.

[mb911]

Go to AWS.Org and that will get you started with the wonderful world of welding. I don't reccommend that repair for the first timer as it could get out of hand quickly. If you need help let me know bimn@genevaonline.com

Ben

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by mb911
Go to AWS.Org and that will get you started with the wonderful world of welding. I don't reccommend that repair for the first timer as it could get out of hand quickly. If you need help let me know bimn@genevaonline.com

Ben

Thanks Ben, looking at the site now. I'll attempt to practice first.

First question: When the time comes, is there a most durable metal weld best suited for this project?

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by H.G.P.

D. However, I think it's time to learn and try,

my friend just bought the latest design small shop TIG.. noticably smaller , with more options than last year.. the size of a shop mig

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by mb911
I don't reccommend that repair for the first timer as it could get out of hand quickly.

yeah really..
I never did any electric welding.. but I think I could learn how to do alumnium on the the tail of outboards and strern drives in an hour.. I want a machine and this new small TIG is a tickel I can't scratch ................Ron

[Ruben911]

For what is worth, the same thing happened to me about 6 months ago when I replaced the alternator. What I ended up doing was using a thick solid "o-ring" between fan and pulley to push the pulley out of the worn out portion and installed a slightly smaller fan belt. It has worked like a charm to date and the pulley remains dead center on the fan. Initially this was supposed to be a quick fix until I could replace the fan, however it's worked so well that I have not replaced the fan yet. Hope this helps.

[mb911]

If tig welded you are suppose to use same fillers as base materials but in this case where there is no stress I would say that a 316L Stainless steel filler would work good as this would act as hard facing and would prevent further wear. Keep in mind it takes the average person about 90 hours of trial and error to become some what competent in most welding procedures but would be well worth it when finished. This does not means by any strech that the person would be a pro but able to do small repairs.

Ben