want to make my C4 a C2
 

I want to make my C4 a C2. I do not like AWD because of its annoying understeer and that it does not take very well to launching. I dont want it to be an american strip layer, but i do want to destroy anything Japanese when it pulls next to me. Now all B.S aside, what will I need besides the tranny itself? Will the front brakes need to be changed? What about the front hubs, shift linkage, or if it applies, computer? Any advice welcome (besides selling the car)

P.S: Anyone interested in buying a 964 AWD setup with low miles?http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/puke.gif

Sell your car. Buy a C2.

Plenty of folks out there who like the C4. Almost no one will want a C2 that "used to be a C4."

yea, but I already have: 3.8 pistons, bilstein coilovers, big reds, mass air, custom fabricated exhaust, 3.8 bi-plane wing, center-force clutch, RSR cams, and many other small items that are one-off things. If I sold my car, it would meen starting from square A. Also, I plan on keeping this car seeing as the chassis has 193,000 miles on it. Also, I plan on installing low compression JE 3.8 pistons and doing a motronic turbo setup this winter along with completly striping the car of its Gaurds Red and painting it that non-metalic dark grey that Audi has on its TT. This is going to be a fast, good looking, yet understated car. If i knew I could get enough money for my car to buy a decent C2 and do most of my mods to It, I would.

ditto on what Moses said...

Get a C2 donor and put your engine in it.

Put a 3.0 engine in the C4 and sell the car on ebay as a "custom car". Then put your 3.8 into a C2 with a blown engine.

but it would be soooo easy to do a conversion, all I would need to buy would be the tranny itself, and a few small misc. parts. then i could sell my awd for as much if not more than the 2wheel

Might be the dumbest idea I've ever read about on this board.

Not exactly a lot of support for this mod is there?

It doesn't seem too dumb to me. Although I have no idea how to do it, surely a nice compromise would be to keep the 4 bits so you could change back again for sale or whatever. Best of both worlds?

I race against a guy with a 993 GT2 replica built from a 993 Carrera 4S. -I think all he did (apart from installing a twin turbo 993 motor) was remove the front drive shafts. His car can be converted back to 4wd in an afternoon and know one would ever know.

Cheers - Ryan

If you're going to add a turbo, aren't you going to want the AWD? You might not have traction issues now, but you will after that!

Once you turbo your 3.8, you'll want your AWD back... especially if it's a daily driver.

Spend some $$$ on the suspension. You'll cure a lot of the understeer.

[edit]Colin beat me to it. :D

There was an article in Excellence a year or so ago on exactly this "reversion". I know what you are after - and so does the owner of the car in that article. Shaved a bunch of weight off the car and gave it back the driving characteristics desired for a track car.
I'll see if I can find it.

I think you will need to change the nose of your tranny not the whole thnig. I don't know about changing hubs or anything.

Go to http://www.turbo911.com/ and post the question

Or http://www.c2turbo.com/

Good luck

There was also an article in either Excellence or 911&PW (I'll look it up) about how to drive a C4 thru corners equally well as a C2, with some mods to the suspension and a different cornering technique. After they were done, they felt there was minimal difference.

That said....

I'd really be tempted to buy a C2 in the color you want or close to it, and just swap engines and any other parts you wanted. Then you'd have a stock C4 to sell which is attractive to many and a C2 platform for your future desires. Given that you dont like the present color and the desire to change it, the money seems in favour of my suggestion I would have thought.

Just my 2c

Cheers
Mark

Rook in Atlanta was doing a GT2 conversion on a 996TT. They had to change the Tranny and the whole strut assembly. It is completley different. May not apply on a 964 though

ok....you pay shipping and I will trade you! I know what you are going for...but the AWD feature is better off in your car, so leave it alone and trade me! HA HA....enjoy the car as is!

You don't even need to change the tranny, just lose the driveshaft coupler, remove the front drive system (and shaft housing), block the hydraulic diff locks, and presto! Instant C2! That's why the 964 C4 manual only needs a small separate section for the C2, they are basically the same car. Been there, done it. I do seem to remember that the original Turbo Perfomance Center conversion was a 964 C4 that showed that all the original C4 needed was enough power to make it break loose...

Porsche964turbo, you are joking.

Ignoring the less helpful posts, it looks like you need to get a really good handle on the differences between the two cars, then make a decision as to whether you should try and simply rmove bits until the C4 becomes 2WD, or if you should replace C4 bits with C2 bits.

Personally, I'd do the latter. But then again, I have no idea of what is involved :D

First off, I would just like to remind those who didn't understand fully, I am NEVER selling this car-I dont care if I become the richest man in the world, I will keep it untill either the car or me or both expires.

Second, useless comments like the example above are not appreciated- If you dont believe in my cause, don't say anything. This conversion is going to be done by me and me only. I am only paying for the parts to do it. Im sorry if this person dosen't like what I am going to do, but judging by his comment; I have made fecal matter that is more inteligent than he. So if you want to give me advice (whether or not its what I want to here) I thank you. If not, I will see you in my rearveiw with my speedometer gauge inching towards 200 M.P.H
Peace out

You posted your request for comments in a public board. By the board's nature, there will be positive and negative comments. If you truly believe in your case, ignore the negative comments, do what you want to do, and forget it. Your car, your money, and you don't need to ask for permission.

But you did ask for comments, and you can't just ask for and expect only positive comments.

I happen to be very interested in this thread. Hopefully you'll let us know how it can be done. I would like a 964 next, and there seems to be 10 C4's for every C2 964 that comes for sale around here. I simply have no interest in an AWD 911. Hopefully it turns out to be as easy as "69 911s" says it is in his post. Good luck.

-Rob
1980sc

Is it true that the 964 C4 is really a front wheel drive with power applied to the rear when needed? If so, I understand where you're coming from. Keep us posted!

Good point Rob. I too wuold like a C2 and have 0 interest in a c4 and there are lots of C4s out there ( I wish there were a way to convert a Cab to a coupe :-)) I will start watching more carefully. I dont care if it ends up a Bastard car, I would buy it cheap wrench on it enjoy it and sell it cheap.

You asked for comments, how useful the comments are is up for you to decide. I said I thought the idea was dumb (IOW, don't do it). I stand by the comment.

Quote:

Im sorry if this person dosen't like what I am going to do, but judging by his comment; I have made fecal matter that is more inteligent than he.

Are you sure about that? That's a pretty harsh comment coming from someone that has been a member of this board for all of 3 days. I'll match my intelligence against a 22-year-old construction worker any day. I hope your spelling isn't any indication of what I'm up against. Name the stakes.

Quote:

If not, I will see you in my rearveiw with my speedometer gauge inching towards 200 M.P.H.

Another intelligent statement. Keep 'em coming.

hallo
You can remove the Axletube and Front-diff. with Axles . Pull the Plug on the AWD valves in the Trunk ( so you can leave the Hydraulics ) .
You need a 2 WD shiftlinkage and the Frontbracket ( goes on the Frontaxle and holds the linkage ) You need the Tube below the Shifter
in the Tunnel and the Bracket to hold it ( you can not buy it from Porsche
look for a wrecked C2 ) . If you are happy with it look for a 965 Turbo Gearbox or a 6 Speed 993 with LSD .
harald

A 964 C4 has 31% of power to the front and 69% applied to the rear. It is the only true AWD that Porsche makes. The 993's and 996's use a totally different system.

I have a C2 and have considered getting a 964 C4. All this sure makes theworld go around.

My thoughts...

I would try talking to some others that track their C4's to see if your driving style can be modified to suit. I'm assuming you're not really that interested in drag-racing otherwise you wouldn't have bought a 911... right?

So I've driven both C2's and C4's and the driving required to get around the corners is different.

Does the C4 understeer more? Yes, but in my expereince only upon turn-in. During track out/apex acceleration they understeer LESS because of the weight and power in the front.

IMHO the C4 is still faster. WHy? WIth the AWD you can enter the corner faster and trailbrake to overcome the understeer, and since you can get on the gas harder and earlier, they exit faster.

Before you sink the big bux into switching the trans, you might try a little more trail-braking (not for the faint of heart in a 911) and get on the gas even before the apex, hard, and steer your way out...

Seriously..

There have been reports that the C4 has been able to eat up transfer cases when the are tracked - raced. I have been following this post since I have a bought a slightly bent 964 C4. I would like to make it a track car, but it may be best to part it out.

I was under the impression that C4s had a viscous center differential. I read somewhere that they ran 5% power to the front wheels under ideal conditions, with a maximum of 40% to the fronts under extremes. Perhaps I've got it mixed up with 993 C4s...

Does anyone know for sure?

Personally, I'm thinking seriously about a C4 as my next 911. I have had long-term AWD cars and loved the grip in the wet and uber-grip in the dry.

Hey Adam, I think DDR964 (Brett's car) is for sale. If you can stand the color.

Ok guys dont upset me...I've just bought a C4 yet to be picked up.....

Anyhow...Chris Streit is correct, driving technique in the C4 is different and with correct understanding and application can be equal to C2's in cornering. I will definitely dig out the p-mag article from last year on this and get back later today with an explanation.

(sorry, hope I'm not robbing your thread!;) )

Cheers
Mark

I think thats the system in later C4's. The 964 was/is fixed AWD.

If you buy a C2 it will come with an engine....

Put it in your C4 and exchange them out. You also know where your engine has been after its done.

Chris,
I had so much understeer that I was balancing myself against the weight of the wheel in certain harder turns, car control was completely different and 4 wheel drifts were just about impossible, with a performance aligned, corner balanced, 18 inch wheeled, H&R sprung C4. That's why when the DM flywheel puked I left the sleeve to the front drive off. Changed the whole personality of the car. That's why I went to a light early car with only RWD. The C4 was a great car, but I couldn't take the track driving characteristics. Too much like a Golf on steroids.

Although the design of the later AWD's are different, the idea of removing the front it essentialy the same. My old boss just did some mods to a 996 tt and all he did was remove the front drive assembly, changed the turbos, and chipped it with a map for the turbos. It put out 550 at the wheels.

Chris from Glasgow is absolutely correct. The 964 is a true AWD, while 993 and 996 are viscous couplings.

I am still looking for somone to buy the awd setup in my car. once that is sold, I can get the 2 wheel drive tranny of my choice. I want a 993 six-speed box, but they are around 3,500$. I know that if I wait, I can get around $3,000 for my tranny. so my idea is to buy a 964 g50 without the limited slip and then with the extra money fit a Quaife limited-slip unit in there, then I will never have to worry about grenading the diff.
So If anybody is interested in a low mileage box that was run on red-line synthetic oil, drop me an E-Mail.

Alright, this is going to be the last post that I am going to waste on this person. Numero uno, I have only been on this post for a few days because I actually have a life out-side of computers, E.G working, racing, getting laid, etc....
You defenatly are trying to match your intelligence against a 22 year old construction worker because your still talking. speaking of age and occupation, you don't have any put down. This leads me to believe that you are probley some high-school kid that is on this post speaking about his daddy's car (sooooo cute). And my spelling is a little off isn't it? I'm sorry, I forgot that you won the spelling contest at school.
Oh, and one other thing, its not inteligent that I would bring my car up to 200 M.P.H? It dosen't do 200 yet, but I get to about 178 or 180 given the air density and temperature. This is not a question of intelligence, but a question of balls (anybody who has seen me drive knows I have them). Im just saying, don't get mad at me because your car or your daddy's car is slow- I have nothing to do with that. Now all B.S aside, I am not going to post anything more on this subject, I am trying figure out how to make my car 2-wheel drive....Hence the name "Want to make my C4 a C2".:D