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How bad is this rust on this 930?
The other day I visited an old friend of the family and when I went into the parking garage, I saw a 930 that I had not seen in 15+ years. This 930 is owned by a person who had a brother that I used to know (he passed away a few years ago), but I've never met the owner of this 930.
For those of you who have had experience with rust, bodywork, restorations, etc. what. do you make of this vehicle? Is the rust shown on these images something that makes this car a total loss, or is it something that could somewhat be easily repaired? Car has been sitting for what seems to be 16 years about 250 meters (±825 feet) away from the ocean in an open garage, hence the rust :eek::( I'm amazed at the apparent rust on the original Speedline Ruf wheels, especially on the driver's side (less protected from the elements than the passenger side). Please accept my apologies for the gray overlays. I'm not sure how the current owner may interpret these, thus me trying to make these images as neutral as possible.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402777.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734402938.jpg |
I have no information on the car except for what can be seen on the pics.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734403491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734403491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734403491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734403491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734403491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734403491.jpg |
It’s always worse than it looks like on the outside. But the areas that are bubbling are the ones that catch water.Edge of lid ,bottom of doors.It would be nice to look at the underside.
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Last set of pics:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734405299.jpg |
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I know the whole mechanicals need to go through and who knows what the engine is like (biggest expense), or tranny, or brakes, or fuel, or suspension, or electrical gremlins, or etc. etc. etc. |
That’s a beautiful car. Sadly, it’s probably worse than it looks, specially sitting near salt water. But it’s far from being a total loss imo.
Are you sure it’s a 930? Seems to have 964 body work and the exhaust is wrong. |
It’s 100% a 930. It has had a 964 body kit added to it since I saw the car for the first time about 20 years ago. The dual exhaust has two tailpipes each, similar to what a stock 930 tailpipe looks like. If it’s in fact worse than it looks, meaning not just “simple superficial rust”, then this would definitely not be I’d be too keen on as I have yet to find a decent body shop down here. Perhaps my standards are too high, but I can tell a repaint from 10 feet away of all the work I e seen down here, so tons of bodywork will just end up looking like crap.
The mechanical stuff is “easy to do” (with pockets deep enough…), but yes, from the observations so far, it’s not looking too promising. |
Every fastener on that car is going to be seized and corroded. Coastal cars are always a mess I would not ever get involved with. I live 1300 ft from the beach to the east and 900 ft from the intercoastal to the west. The non-garaged cars here are a nightmare.
Trust me, there's way more rust there than meets the eye. You'll be way underwater after repairs. |
Hard pass.
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Get it up on a lift and have a look underneath. You won’t be able to see all but will get a good idea
Nothing in those pics would have me too concerned if the price is right. Won’t be cheap to bring it back to good condition though, a lot of hours needed |
You need to take a look here.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c8ce74184b.jpg If it's all good there then you've a good chance of spending less than $25k on bodywork. Which is a good result on a $100k+ car. Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk |
That car is in terrible condition. As the others have said, it has much more rust than what you can see. If you are not inclined to personally rebuild the car, then run away.
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That is a sick, very sick car. For the right price, it is rebuildable, but do you have the means, in time, space and money?
It is a great project, but a naked shell type of project. |
Unless you want a project car to learn welding and car restoration, run Forest run. If you plan to pay for the restoration you will have to get a real deal on the purchase price.
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You are looking at a windows out re-paint at a minimum. Looks like rust around a lot of the glass, probably water leakage. ...& so probably a bunch of metalwork too. Looks like it sat out in the elements, probably for years. (based on the location of some of this rust) Also looks like it may have had "rust treatment" when it was new, always a *huge* mistake bc it would block the drain holes (rust around the bottoms of the doors, etc) The real "killer" spots are what you can't see here - how is the floor, suspension attachment points, etc. If the outer body is that bad, what kind of shape do you think the engine is in? Get it up on a lift for sure and make sure the structural areas are sound. Rust repair was always the major cost in our shop. It could easily take >100 hours to DA the thing down, pull all the glass, repair the metal, and build it back up and paint it. You could easily be looking at a full suspension, full brakes, at least partial interior, fuel lines, possibly an engine re-build... Anything is fixable for enough $$ but is the juice worth the squeeze? (do you own a Mig welder and a plasma cutter? Have you always wanted to? ;)
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Thank you all for your comments and observations.
I was secretly hoping it would be something "superficial", but the more I think about it, the less interested I am. Not even going to follow up to see if the owner wants to sell. Shame to see something like this, but when people are paying upwards of $70K for a charred slantnose shell (nothing but the shell), I guess people could believe that anything (this rusty car) is worth anything they ask for (I have no clue if he'd sell and how much he'd ask for this). Again, thank you all for your input. For the record, I'm a "checkbook mechanic".... I have hung around this place for a couple of decades, but I'm not the sort that will rebuild an engine or anything for that matter. I do like knowing what it takes to fix something and how it's properly done, but let's just say I've often caused more damage while trying to repair something..... |
Or you can buy it, fix up some likely minor stuff, get it running, assuming the engine isn't seized.
Drive it, savor the 930 experience, a couple years then leave the major rust to a deeper pocket. The car isn't falling apart unlike many other 911s which still seem to sell for good money. |
Usually you hear a full quality respray is in the $25K range. This has rust repair everywhere you can see on top of that. Probably not cut out and weld in patches repair, but the need to kill the rust and then fill the pits. So what, maybe another $10K-$15K in rust repair (just what you can see) before paint?
Maybe worth considering if you know the engine is good, but if it's not...... Mark |
I live a stones throw (at high tide) from the sea, so unfortunately I know about this subject :(
The salt air drifts in and covers the car 100%, including the underneath, and rusts in places you didn't even know existed. Also can cause electrical gremlins. |
looks like its rusting from the inside out - id run away from buying to restore.
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The idea was to restore it as a project to entertain myself, enjoy it, sell it whenever I could no longer drive it, and hopefully not lose my shirt on it, but all roads point to the fact that this car is best left alone to someone who is more adventurous than me.
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that right rear quarter has rust in a sort of pattern almost like it was an old metal repair lapped over existing metal, maybe it's just my eyes and the grainy pics
that being said if there's nothing serious, you can get it for a good deal and you want a fun beater I'd say go for it but I bet the mechanicals are just as neglected |
It would be nice to see a few more pictures of the usual key areas to inform your decision. I wouldn’t run away from this at all but more detail would help inform the price I was happy to pay.
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Thing is, once one starts to restore this, it will end up with a naked shell, and *everything* will be revised. Could end up costing more than the value of a decent non modified 930.
Add to that the possible cost of original parts... Even free, it could be too expensive. Been there... |
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That car will need to be stripped to the tub, and all new rubber and wiring. Likely the engine will need to be stripped down for a good cleaning and replating and repainting and new fuel hoses. It goes on and on. |
It's beyond clear what a monumental effort restoring this car will be for whomever gets it, it's just not going to be me. Down here (Panama, Republic of Panama) parts are not as readily available as in the States and though shipping things down here has become a lot easier to do over the years, it still presents its own challenges.
Also, I have yet to find a body shop whose work is beyond reproach and if I would actually spend $100K+ on a vehicle, I can guarantee you it would look like new, not something like a high school student did at the auto shop class. This car offers no sentimental value to me, so it's not like I would spend the money regardless of the fact that it would make no financial sense. Right now making "foolish" financial decisions is completely the opposite of what I need to be doing. I just wasn't sure if this is a $30K (or whatever price he asks) car that needs $30K in repairs (I think we can all agree it will be a lot more than that) and I would have ended up with a $90K car. |
So much negativity..... drive it as is, that patina would be a big hit up here in the states at the local cars and coffee events
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Is it possible the car was repainted and the prep was so bad that it was rusting before it was even primmed? That is really bad and I thought Porsche paint was more robust than this.
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I don't think this car is a good candidate for a checkbook mechanic.
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This car definitely doesn't have factory paint. It's a 930 with a 964 body kit on it, so at some point in. its life, it was locally painted, hence the not-so-great shape.
I'm definitely a checkbook mechanic, so yeah, based on all the replies, I will leave it alone and who knows what will be the final outcome of this car. |
Are these commonplace in Panama ?
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No way. To the best of my knowledge there are only about 10 930s, of which one is a Ruf (beautiful condition), two have been converted to full on track cars (and have not been seen in over a decade), and another is a slant that is the remains of a fire, two are cabriolets, and this one. Of the remaining 3, there is a gorgeous blue one with tan interior and the other two I have not seen in a while, but I did know their owners a long time ago and I could only assume they still have them in decent shape.
I almost purchased the gorgeous blue one back in 2001/2002, but I let logic rule and got a Euro spec BMW M Z3 Coupé instead. I do keep in touch once in a while with the current owner, but he knows what he has, and as I’ve alluded to before, right now is not the best time for me to spend money on a toy fully knowing it will be a very expensive thing to own. Perhaps my luck will change for the better and I’ll eventually get that blue Turbo. |
You know what - I live at the bottom of the world. And if that car fell in my lap I would seriously look at it. Expecting to spend $s. But hoping I knew what I was getting in to.
They aren't making any more 930s. I bought mine as suppsoedly a good road going car from Japan. Was a crap heap. After many months of hard work I thought of binning it for parts. 20 yrs on, would not part with it. We will get buried together. Depends on your budget and stomach for setbacks etc. But put this car in the right market and it will sell real quick. Prob matching numbers etc. Alan |
Looks to me like it was just given a very poor repaint at one point and the climate is finally getting to it. It would certainly be worth getting running and driving as is. 930's don't appear to be going down in price, so if you can get it for a song, go for it.
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Yikes. For the right price, OK. But that price likely won't satisfy the current owner. This car will require a big checkbook to fix.
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Maybe don't run away just yet. If you can get a look at the engine (and underside), suspension and brake bits and other hidden areas and then reevaluate.
You said you're in Panama, how many 930s come up for offer down there? If everything else is just as crappy, then walk. |
I would not touch that car. Rebuilding an engine is easier.
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To start: don't fix the lids; replace them: engine lid, gas lid and hood.
second: full strip to determine if door shells can be saved. Like the front & rear lids, the doors have overlapped edges and when rust gets started inside the overlap, the practical route is panel replacement. If I had to guess, i'd say in the prior repaint prep, the shop sanded off the galvanizing before painting. Agree with the prior comment about chassis fasteners being ugly, and for sure, electrical connectors are suspect. If the market value of a repainted, 964-cosmetics-modified 930 in very good condition is, say, $80K, you'd need to get this car in the $20s to make it a decent driver. IOW, "it's parts." ---------- Addendum: can't see for sure, but if there is rust inside the drip rail, that's a showstopper. |
It all comes down to price. It probably was crappy preparation on the last paint job that is leading ot a lot of the problem. The parts needed to put it back to sock body wise are cheap and easy to obtain.
What's the worst case? Dig into it and part the thing if it gets too bad. |
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