HELP 1978 911 SC timing issues with CDI+...

[Jinez14]

Hello

My name is Juan, i recently got my 1978 Porsche 911 SC imported from the US, the car was purchased on Houston TX and i drove 3 hours to San Antonio to have it refreshed from suspension, brakes, fuel system but the engine seem to work fine so basic maintenance was done to it (spark plugs, oil, injector sleeves and so), the car was running very good in Texas, the only thing pending was the WUR and the Thermo Switch sensor, whiche seem like an easy task to do in Mexico (due to importation process timing i could not have this parts on time on the Texas Shop).

The issues came when the car arrived to Mexico, my local shop installed the WUR, fuel accumulator and the car just needed some adjusment which they did and the car run great... for about 3 miles when the OEM CDI stop sending spark to the system, we made some test according to the manual and the CDI was the main issue.

Firstly i thought it was the Green Wire, got one from URO, swap the cable and being very careful about the dizzy timing (i have modest mechanical experience, the dizzy was pointing to Cylinder #1 aligned with the dizzy mark and with 8 degrees of timing) but everything line up and the car did not start (i got some more electrical test and the spark was not there even with the new green wire)

After this the next step was to get a new CDI, so i went for the CDI+ (the dizzy is not locked up, is running as stock), new P-Klassik harnes/new coil/new lead wire, the parts arrived and we installed them and the car did crank (so there was spark) but could not get it to start... my Mechanic started looking at the timing and he moved the dizzy just to be sure that it was ok but it seems that the car was out of timing... so he had to move 2 tooths to make it start and run (the rotor was almost pointing to cylinder #6 on TDC), the thing is that the car was running very hot and the mixture was not good, was running very rich and smoking unburned gas.

After this, my mechanic, set the TDC, lined up the pulley marks and put 0-5 degrees of timing but it seems that this is not working with my car.

I asked about the CDI+ configuration but CR is not very convinced that this a CDI related issue.

But right now im very lost and not sure what to do, also my mechanic is a little bit stressed because everything should be working and timing according (we already check coil wire order on the cap and engine, check that the engine is truly at compresion with a gauge) so it should be starting and working but it wont.

I already got an AEM wideband for the AFR and adjustment, will be checking the injectors for fueling issues and until next week i will get my fuel pressure gauge to check if there is an issue with the WUR (but i believe this does not affect the timing setup)

So any advice, recommendation or help would be appreciate it.

Thank you very much!

JUAN

[Ltanderso]

Juan,

As I mentioned on your FB post, you have the wrong WUR and you haven't verified the fuel pressures. Until these two are corrected and confirmed, everyone is shooting in the dark. These two items need to be corrected before you start major timing adjustments.

After those are corrected, if the timing is so far off, your crank pulley may be in the incorrect position. You should verify this with a TDC indicator tool (or a long screw driver) in cylinder 1.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to find a better mechanic.

[boyt911sc]

Juan,

A good CIS mechanic should know about the following when doing a CIS investigation or troubleshooting:

• Control, System, and Residual fuel pressures.
• Identify that the WUR, FD, ignition distributor, etc. are the correct ones.
• Ignition and cam timing are in spec.
• Etc.

What are the last 3 digits of the WUR, FD, and ignition distributor? Is your mechanic very familiar with CIS? Keep us posted.

Tony

[Jonny H]

I agree. You need to go back to basics with fuel and static timing. Use somebody who is familiar with these cars. Make sure you have the correct CDI coil.

CDI+ does not require you to ‘re index’ the distributor on the drive gear.

[Jinez14]

Originally Posted by Ltanderso

Juan,

As I mentioned on your FB post, you have the wrong WUR and you haven't verified the fuel pressures. Until these two are corrected and confirmed, everyone is shooting in the dark. These two items need to be corrected before you start major timing adjustments.

After those are corrected, if the timing is so far off, your crank pulley may be in the incorrect position. You should verify this with a TDC indicator tool (or a long screw driver) in cylinder 1.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to find a better mechanic.

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Juan,

A good CIS mechanic should know about the following when doing a CIS investigation or troubleshooting:

• Control, System, and Residual fuel pressures.
• Identify that the WUR, FD, ignition distributor, etc. are the correct ones.
• Ignition and cam timing are in spec.
• Etc.

What are the last 3 digits of the WUR, FD, and ignition distributor? Is your mechanic very familiar with CIS? Keep us posted.

Tony

Originally Posted by Jonny H

I agree. You need to go back to basics with fuel and static timing. Use somebody who is familiar with these cars. Make sure you have the correct CDI coil.

CDI+ does not require you to ‘re index’ the distributor on the drive gear.

Hello,

Thanks for taking the time on answering me. Appreciate it!

So i followed your advice and look for a better mechanic that was familiar with P-cars and CIS overrall.

We went back to basics, installed the old WUR that was working with the car when i got it, checked for vaccum leaks, tested the fuel pressure (still showing some issues with the Cold pressure with the old WUR) and basically the Dizzy was incorrectly installed and by moving a couple of tooths, cylinder 1 was not responding, basically death, so he re index the dizzy, checked the "hall effect sensor" and lubricated the dizzy and installed as neeeded (TDC on Z1) everything as per the manual, and the Car fired up and run as smooth as before... so the CDI+ WAS NOT THE ISSUE as the first mechanic stated it was how he setup the distributor.

As an FYI, the hardware eas OK it was basically a mess up from the first mechanic.

So the new mechanic, setup the car for me to test it for a couple of weeks (basically for christmas and new years eve time), so far so good, feels really good as before... as soon as he comes back from winter break, we are going to install fresh plugs, install the new WUR (check for pressures) , install the SSI´s, wideband sensor and will be starting to tune it a little bit and playing with the setup, timing and so.

thanks again!

[Jonny H]

Good for you for taking a breath and going back to basics! Most things generally work when they are setup as intended.

Happy new year!