new front suspension

[Bill Verburg]

Finally got all the parts to redo my front suspension
old struts
Bilstein Sport inserts, In stock Bilstein strut


new struts
Bilstein(Vonn level 1)-digressive, 1" shorter insert, w/ short wiper seal, spindles +40mm, adjustable height steering Knuckles

[famoroso]

[QUOTE=Bill Verburg;12558035]Finally got all the parts to redo my front suspension

new struts
Bilstein(Vonn level 1)-digressive, 1" shorter insert, w/ short wiper seal, spindles +40mm, adjustable height steering Knuckles


You running 18s?

[Kevin Stewart]

Bill, that looks awesome! I have a factory lowered 82 will this lower it another inch? Or is there actually a factory lowered 82? Thanks for sharing, Kevin

[ccallana]

All other things staying the same - if you drop the Vons in, in place of the Bilsteins - does the car drop an inch? so then you have to crank up on the torsion bar - which then messes with the toe/camber/steering, etc...?

[Bill Verburg]

[QUOTE=famoroso;12558057]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Finally got all the parts to redo my front suspension

new struts
Bilstein(Vonn level 1)-digressive, 1" shorter insert, w/ short wiper seal, spindles +40mm, adjustable height steering Knuckles


You running 18s?

17s

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Kevin Stewart

Bill, that looks awesome! I have a factory lowered 82 will this lower it another inch? Or is there actually a factory lowered 82? Thanks for sharing, Kevin

I run the front lowered ~2.5" from stock, this cuts compression travel down from ~3.5" to ~1" +/- the raised spindle, shorter insert and shorter wiper restore ~2.5" of compression travel.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by ccallana

All other things staying the same - if you drop the Vons in, in place of the Bilsteins - does the car drop an inch? so then you have to crank up on the torsion bar - which then messes with the toe/camber/steering, etc...?

no, Vonns are just regular~21/3" Bilstein inserts, that have a digressive revalve and are matched, I had them shortened ~1" ,this w/ the shorter seal restores ~1" of compression travel.

I will have to change the t-bar adj. due to the raised spindles

then the adj hgt. steering knuckles come in to play

[Bill Verburg]

it's all together and fits well, concern was clearance from +40mm spindle height, I had made a wooden template before hand to check clearance but it's still a relief




now comes the hard part, dialing in corner weights and ride height

[Bill Verburg]

forum seems to be acting up pics aren't showing

friggen Apple

[Queefchief]

I need to raise mine 40+ as well. I just have a low street driven car on 17s. Feels like driving a brick on the road.

[Bill Verburg]

Got it out on the road today, the change is astonishing. Even w/ the 225/45 front tires the car feels like my old '72 w/ 185/70, It's amazing the bad things that you get used to over time.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

no, Vonns are just regular~21/3" Bilstein inserts, that have a digressive revalve and are matched, I had them shortened ~1" ,this w/ the shorter seal restores ~1" of compression travel.

I will have to change the t-bar adj. due to the raised spindles

then the adj hgt. steering knuckles come in to play

Sorry to be late to the party on this!

Do you have pics of the shortened inserts compared to the stock inserts? Looking at the pics in the first post, it looks like the overall length is about 1/2" shorter.

This would make sense I guess, since to shorten 1", you'd shorten the shaft by 1/2" and the shock body by 1/2". But this would only give you an additional 1/2" of bump travel. Which is good, I guess, since the shortened seal holder only gives you 1/2" more clearance before things start to hit the front strut mount.

I ask if you had before/aft pics of the inserts largely because it's hard to make a comparison of them installed in the strut - the top mount area has changed shape too, possibly adding to the difficulty in comparing.

Did you cut the bumpstop? I always run them at 2/3 length.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Got it out on the road today, the change is astonishing. Even w/ the 225/45 front tires the car feels like my old '72 w/ 185/70, It's amazing the bad things that you get used to over time.

Looks great, and I have no trouble believing it's a huge change!!! I keep beating the drum on suspension travel, and bump steer correction. Fix them both and it's practically like magic!!!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Looks great, and I have no trouble believing it's a huge change!!! I keep beating the drum on suspension travel, and bump steer correction. Fix them both and it's practically like magic!!!

Yeah, what happens you get used to it so it becomes the new normal
when I bought the car in Germany 50 yrs ago I had it setup by a local tuner

w/ 205/50 x15 tires a was ~281 and w/ a - b of 108, b was 177, but the car was lowered further down to where b was probably ~135 possibly lower as my size 11 shoes didn't fit under the front lip, unfortunately most of my records from that era were lost over time .

over the ensuing decades the wheels went to 16 then 17, ride height was up and down, a rack spacer and turbo tie rods were added and you get used to things.

The final straw was the change to bigger t-bars and back to a very low ride height, b = 130, the ride was atrocious, I estimate there there was < 1" of compression travel, maybe a lot less

I have to admit that you posts are what got me thinking

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The final straw was the change to bigger t-bars and back to a very low ride height, b = 130, the ride was atrocious, I estimate there there was < 1" of compression travel, maybe a lot less

What torsion bar sizes do you have?

My other pet peeve is the common 21mm front torsion bar sizes and the resulting wheel rates that are simply off the charts for the weight of the car. I think the main benefit of them is that they prevent the suspension from moving too much, thereby keeping the car off the bumpstops, and limiting the bump steer of the stock suspension when lowered.

Now that you have the travel back and the means to dial in a better bump steer curve, you could think about going to 19mm torsion bars in front and really letting the suspension do its job!

Last but not least, I'm sorry I made two posts that should have been one - I think you missed my questions about the strut shortening you had done. Curious about it. I also forgot to ask if there's an upcharge for it.

Best regards, Jon

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Sorry to be late to the party on this!

Do you have pics of the shortened inserts compared to the stock inserts? Looking at the pics in the first post, it looks like the overall length is about 1/2" shorter.

This would make sense I guess, since to shorten 1", you'd shorten the shaft by 1/2" and the shock body by 1/2". But this would only give you an additional 1/2" of bump travel. Which is good, I guess, since the shortened seal holder only gives you 1/2" more clearance before things start to hit the front strut mount.

I ask if you had before/aft pics of the inserts largely because it's hard to make a comparison of them installed in the strut - the top mount area has changed shape too, possibly adding to the difficulty in comparing.

Did you cut the bumpstop? I always run them at 2/3 length.

Unfortunately not a lot of other pics on my end

I do have the old b8 inserts as they couldn't be used due to the thinner shaft diameter, I bought new Vonn inserts because of the digressive valving matched to the 20mm t-bars I use.
In this thread Chuck explains the process
only difference is I also shortened the insert, we spec'd 1" but in reviewing the communication ended w/ 7/8"
yes there is a fee for the service $290/pair

I didn't shorten the lower body except by using the shorter shaft seal, to shorten this you have to relocate the internal bearings which I didn't want to get involved w/

no bumpstop mods

Chuck measured 2.5" total bump travel recovery

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

What torsion bar sizes do you have?

My other pet peeve is the common 21mm front torsion bar sizes and the resulting wheel rates that are simply off the charts for the weight of the car. I think the main benefit of them is that they prevent the suspension from moving too much, thereby keeping the car off the bumpstops, and limiting the bump steer of the stock suspension when lowered.

Now that you have the travel back and the means to dial in a better bump steer curve, you could think about going to 19mm torsion bars in front and really letting the suspension do its job!

Last but not least, I'm sorry I made two posts that should have been one - I think you missed my questions about the strut shortening you had done. Curious about it. I also forgot to ask if there's an upcharge for it.

Best regards, Jon

my car isn't as svelte as many others

all up weight w/ me in it and w/ a full tank of gas is 2804#
t-bars are 20/26, smallest that reduce the roll in street use to a comfortable level for me.

I agree that many go too large for their use but also understand that different compromises will be made by different people for the same use.

There is no doubt that as the supension is stiffened mechanical grip goes down.

[Brookieslayer]

Thanks for sharing Chucks process. I appreciate it.
Good info to have for a guy like me that is just getting to the suspension planning stage on the bench.