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Mark

Earlier, someone mentioned 0.8 and above.

CD tested the Carrera at 0.8g

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That .80g was with tires from the 1980s. The tires from this era are far superior in almost every respect. When using a track app like Track Addict, I see 1.0 on tight corners. Not real scientific, but I know my car on modern Summer tires handles way better than the old M/S tires of the 1980s or 90s.

A good book, no a great book, is the Vic Elford High Performance driving handbook. It's not all about racing, but rather about how cars handle and the physics of cornering. It all makes sense when Vic Elford tells it.

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i just got it. I'm reading that when the car slides out to hit the brakes and clutch in???
or is that once the car is beyond correcting.
i need to re read

^^^ When you’ve lost it, it’s both feet in. The clutch in, to keep the engine running (and/or damage to the engine/trans ) and the brake pedal to slow down and stop.

+1
at the advanced driving school the instructor said: once you have lost it, the steering wheel is only to hold your self braced and allow you to push the brake pedal even harder'

its important to recognize when to give up and commit to the spin, with brake and clut6ch in.
Leave it too late, doing your correction, you just hit harder/at higher speed.
Professionals are different, they can do things we normals wish we could. And even they loose it once in a while

double post

ok i wanted to make sure i read that right.
the book kind of meanders a bit. looking to see where he is talking about flowing the car through a corner.
seems that it's brake/ downshift, set the speed and neutral through the corner and then accelerate out.

Slow in, fast out. Not sure about 'neutral' in the corner. Some context needed. Just 'drifting' thru the corner ain't the best option. Your traction comes from weighting the rear end - something the 911 does very well. There are many critical nuances to getting this right.
Don't overcook it going in to a corner. Thats what leads to trouble.
Slow in, fast out is also the quickest way around the track.
Of course the definition of 'slow in' may need some amplification - but you get the point?
I suspect most people panic as soon as the car gets a bit loose. That usually determines the end result. When it was at some point,still salvageable. Only a bit of seat time on a track can get beyond that point. Which is something that has been amplified in this thread multiple times. There is no substitute.
Alan

Anything resembling "slow in" is NOT the quickest way around the track.

Kinda of going beyond the original scope of this topic - identifying the limit to set a not to exceed on normal road conditions. Racing techniques are a different ball of noodles.

(BTW neutral is application of ~10% throttle or just enough to keep the rear slightly loaded - and fronts not pushing - for throttle uptake and trackout past the apex.)

My 86 is a momentum car.
On many corners I will aim head on to the apex.
The car will understeer so by the time I'm at the apex I will clip it perfectly.

My 86 is a momentum car.
On many corners I will aim head on to the apex.
The car will understeer so by the time I'm at the apex I will clip it perfectly.

Yeah I don't think people realize just how much better modern tires are. Even tires from the modern era--I think someone recently took 15-20 seconds off the Carrera GT's 'Ring time just with 2024 tires vs. those available at the car's launch.

On Ventus RS4 even my little SC will bounce between 1 - 1.2g as it shimmies through a corner.

Yeah fast in fast out is always better. :)

Slow in fast out is for learning and is good for intermediate drivers. Getting the "fast in" part right is what separates HPDE champs from paid racing drivers. Watching Leh Keen back a classic 911 in from start of braking through the apex is what that looks like. Something good to aspire to, but far from attainable unless you're really willing to risk a crash or two.

Pick the corners with good run-off and practice there, I say. :D

Edit: That reminds me... this was me practicing just that at CMP some years ago: https://youtu.be/uqVWQM6IOoM?si=w2uQzK5XKirbhU4i

Please ignore my adrenaline fueled laugh, it was a moment! Also I forgot how bad the camera angle was in this video.

My first HDPE was at age 18 in my dad's 320iS at Road Atlanta. On Saturday morning I learned "when you spin, both feet in." On Sunday morning I blew a rear tire in the esses and learned it directly. Useful knowledge!

Looks like a fun day at the track, David!

Interesting.

Were driving events ... for street cars ... really that tame back then due to the tires ?

Oh Jeezus David, I feel car sick driving with you LOL

That's a nice track, even better when it looks like he has it all to himself, no other cars !