Steve Wong/911chips.com
 

I know this is not new or revolutionary feedback but I like to talk positively about good products/experiences. As we all know performance improvements on air cooled Porsches in not a cheap thing. IMO at $600 this chip is the best value for engine performance (good maintenance aside).

I can’t speak for any model other than the 3.2L 911 because that is what I have.
If you don’t have a Steve Wong/911chips.com chip in your car, order one today. I have no affiliation with the company other than I just purchased and installed a chip. Mine was spec’ed for 93 octane w/ a premuffler/sport exhaust. My car is stock other than a premuffler in place of the cat. There are plenty of raving testimonials about this product so this isn’t new feedback, I am just affirming it. This is the most impactful $600 you can spend on your car as far as engine performance.
Car runs smoother, better throttle response, better power, pulls through the entire RPM range with more authority and to a higher redline.

I have no idea how much more horsepower it added. It is not earth shattering in that regards. Just a lot of small improvements that add up to a very noticeable and positive improvement in performance and driving pleasure. All for a relatively small investment.

Get one and enjoy.
Best.

i agree 100%. I waited way too long to pull the trigger and it was so worth it once i finally did. Also, Steve is super great about helping troubleshoot any issues you might have.
FWIW, I feel the same way about the WEVO shifter!

The SW chip does indeed improve power delivery and performance across the range, However; as you say; the initial improvement in power is not what its about, its how it affects the drive and feel of the car across the range, had mine in for around 10 years now.
Ant.

Off topic but can you elaborate on the shifter. I have read conflicting opinions on changing the shifter.

Thanks
Foster

It modernized the feel of the shifting. It's more engaging and the throw is shortened by 30%. I did opt for the PSJ as well. It does bring extra noise into the cab (as advertised). but does definitely tighten things up.

I certainly agree with flee27. I have both the Steve Wong custom chip and enlarged throttle body on my 3.2L engine, along with some other modifications. Performance, running quality, and throttle response all improved over stock.

Did you do you enlarged throttle body separately from other mods? I guess what I am really asking is can you quantify what the noticeable improvement (if any) were?

Thanks

I was unable to identify any improvement with a bored throttle body on my modified 3.2. It felt great but after objective testing I proved once again how unreliable our butt dyno is. I did a post on my findings a few years ago.

The 3mm enlarged throttle body was installed along with the custom chip. I noticed a difference in throttle response over the stock throttle body and my previously installed SW chip. But as the two mods were done together, I can't say that the throttle body is the main contributor.

I'm planning to have my car run on a chassis dyno this summer and will report the results along with all engine modifications.

as I understand it, the larger throttle plate in an enlarged throttle body allows more air into the engine at the same part throttle position as a standard-sized throttle body. This provides the "butt dyno" perception of increased (part throttle) performance/different throttle response. However, since the throttle body's diameter is not a significant pinch point in a stock or mildly tweaked 3.2 Carrera engine, full throttle performance (as tested on a dyno) is not materially affected.

Darrin, I totally agree. And if there was a power gain to be had, it would be slight and only at the top end of the RPM range of the engine.

You are absolutely correct, as exemplified by other testes over the last 10+ years.
The idea is totally laughable, when one considers ALL the key variables for intake air volume.

Consumer naivety always results is wasted money!

Found this Pelican Parts thread; http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/683503-performance-tuning-myth.html

Hi Loren,
I wondered when you might show up SmileWavy
I do agree on the throttle body conundrum though, unless your doing serious increases elsewhere, its pretty pointless, and can in some cases cause adverse effects.
Ant.

dkirk - please keep us informed on your custom wong / chassis dyno activities.

This is on my 'to do' list. I have run an SW chip for 10 years along with other mods but want to dial it all in on a dyno.

Regards,
Steve

Oh, so you're going to "performance tune" your 911 3.2, right? What "tuning-app" will you be using?

Dave,

SW chips can 'flash' a chip specific to your (my) 3.2 based on actual dyno run A/F data.

So although my chip seems to be fine 'as is' based on all of Steve's experience, I thought why not send him data from a few dyno runs and have the chip flashed to my car.

I'm open to hearing why this is a good, bad or marginal idea. The obvious answer is that this is silly because he's likely 99% there already based on how much data he has accumulated over the years.

The argument against that may be that why not get to 99.5%.

Regards,
Steve

Here we go again....

May as well start an oil and filter thread while you're at it.

Linking to a thirteen year old closed thread that had devolved into hot garbage. Gee "Dave," that must have been really difficult to find.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1743940075.jpg

OMG, Steve! I LOVE that you just explained to "Dave" what SW can do. Too bad you couldn't understand it for him too! <insert crying laughing emoji here>

I have a few decades worth of real world experience with off the shelf 3.2 chips (SW, Weltmeister, Superchips, Autothority, Sal Carceller, etc) in MANY different 3.2s. I've tried / run different MAF conversions too. The shop I worked at installed many Weltmeister 3.2 chips in-period. I've had numerous cars tuned on the dyno, including a pair of 3.2s. Steve Wong dyno tuned my former '88 3.2 and one of my current '87s, a 3.4, with his throttle body. Send me your number via DM if you'd like to discuss the particulars. Happy to discuss the objective and subjective, real-world, pros / cons / good / bad / marginal of all the above.

Thank you Frank - I have enjoyed seeing your car on several occasions during the Monterey Auto week and I have a file of pictures for reference.

I do want to memorialize my mods and the proven BHP for 'Dave' - keep in mind my 3.2 has never been opened, good compression tests and 132,000 mi, your results may vary.

I exclusively use Chinese oil filters and Venezuelan oil.

Decat pipe 21 bhp
Stock exh cut open, cut up, welded back up 8 bhp
Cup air box 18 bhp
Enlarged TB 15 bhp
Extrude Hone intake 2.9 bhp
Clean air filter 7.1 bhp
SW Chip +/- 69 total
Round off or up with over rev 77 BHP

I'm glad you enjoyed seeing them. Brought my white '87 last year and my Gemini '87 in '23. Was hoping to have my '89 done in time for this year, but that's looking unlikely. For the first time in a long time, I'm not bringing a car this year.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1744114277.jpg


That's a HELL of a power kit you have there! Subjectively tho, how's the drivability? I'd be worried that all that extra BHP comes in only below idle speed (or is it only above redline?). ;)


Speaking of devolving, I believe this thread has arrived. Apologies to the OP.

Quasi back on topic, I love the objective power gains on my SW chipped & tuned cars, but I LOVE the driveability even more. Smoother and more powerful... Two great tastes that go GREAT together.

Regardless of how accurate my dyno may be - the car is great with all these parts. The partially gutted exhaust likely did nothing.

I'm wanting the larger dia 3.2 SSI's just to remove most of the government compliance bits off the car.

Ultimately I rebuild the engine with the internal compliance parts removed.

You should really dyno it before making such claims.

Otherwise, as someone said, this reads like yet another OIL thread.

Respectfully I disagree. I am not making claims of any specific gains in HP or Torque. Just the improved drivability, and I don't need a dyno to notice this.

As many others have also affirmed, the SW chip makes a very noticeable improvement of the drivability of the car.

Something that makes a noticeable improvement for so little invested is worthy of positive feedback IMO. That is my only intended message.

Best
Foster

Oh well, I tried.

Maybe someday someone would and this technical forum will see more pretty charts.

[QUOTE

I have a few decades worth of real world experience with off the shelf 3.2 chips (SW, Weltmeister, Superchips, Autothority, Sal Carceller, etc) in MANY different 3.2s.[/QUOTE]

same as you i have used all of the above-(i knew Trevor at superchips)and finally when i moved to France i contacted Steve W. he set it up for my euro 85 with 98-100 octane gas.
Runs like a champ


Ivan

May be of interest! :)
Ant.

https://www.911chips.com/dyno.html

same as you i have used all of the above-(i knew Trevor at superchips)and finally when i moved to France i contacted Steve W. he set it up for my euro 85 with 98-100 octane gas.
Runs like a champ


Ivan[/QUOTE]

While the Weltmeister chips obviously claimed more power, we installed them on some 3.2s in an attempt to mitigate part-throttle drivability / surge issues.

Agree with your "Runs like a champ" comment. I'm happy with my former '88 & '87, both dyno tuned and my off the shelf chipped '87 & '89.

I wish I would have recorded all ten dyno pulls on the black '88 as the difference in sound between the baseline pull and the ninth tweak of the maps was amazing. Not that an open air box lid, Euro pre-muffler and a Dansk 84mm sport muffler sounded bad before, but it definitely sounded healthier post-tune.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1744205374.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1744205215.jpg



My white '87 came with an off the shelf SW pre-muffler + sport muffler chip already installed. With a Dansk pre-muffler and Monty muffler it offers a unique sound.

Love the Pirelli tires on the blue car Frank! I'm too chicken to get those because I want more grip that large tread block designs provide. I did get CN36's for the old car.

My mind dyno allows more BHP than anyone else can claim!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/pain30.gif

The P7 Colleziones are great. Not quite as good an all around tire as the Yoko A-008Ps that I have since normalized on for the street. The A052s are the bomb, but not period-correct look. Weather permitting, I run the A052s for road rallys.

I tried a set of 225 + 245 R Comps, including my one and only track day at Laguna Seca in Gemini. TONS of grip, but... the 8s w/ 225s up front worsened the steering feel (and the wide body steering feel is already not as good as the narrow bodies out of the gate). There's an argument to be made for less grip being more on these cars in terms of steering feel and how alive / playful the cars feel when you're hustling them in the corners.


Grippy AF!...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1744213209.jpg

The majority of air/fuel issues in these cars come down to few things in priority order:
1 - Intake air leaks
2 - Faulty injector(s)
3 - Faulty air meters
4 - Bad fuel delivery or fuel pressure

My MAF system replaces old injectors with modern day disc 4 hole injectors, these are Bosch racing 34lb injectors. The system also replaces the old barn door AFM with modern day Hitachi MAF blade. Then system is fully tuned to properly run MAF and modern injectors.

The live feel is more a function of the scrub radius, which comes from the wheel ET

wheel tire width and series spec affect grip which can also contribute to feel but not as much or in the same way.

Fair enough. Soooooo... What, if anything,.can be done to improve WB steering feel?

Somewhat separately, as much as I'm a 16" Fuchs, especially Fuchs Evo, fan boy / devotee, I think my '89 M491 "hot rod" build (eventually shooting for ~2,500 pounds & ~350 hp) is likely gonna need more rubber than my current 205 & 245 happy place. If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels, what are the recommended tire sizes? I'm not looking to cram the absolute largest tires possible under the fenders as I would A) prefer to avoid fitment issues and B) attempt to preserve some steering feel.

BTW, I know we've gone completely off the rails / this post's original topic.Such is life in the big (Pelican Parts forum) city.

Thx!

Fair enough. Soooooo... What, if anything,.can be done to improve WB steering feel?

Somewhat separately, as much as I'm a 16" Fuchs, especially Fuchs Evo, fan boy / devotee, I think my '89 M491 "hot rod" build (eventually shooting for ~2,500 pounds & ~350 hp) is likely gonna need more rubber than my current 205 & 245 happy place. If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels, what are the recommended tire sizes? I'm not looking to cram the absolute largest tires possible under the fenders as I would A) prefer to avoid fitment issues and B) attempt to preserve some steering feel.

BTW, I know we've gone completely off the rails / this post's original topic.Such is life in the big (Pelican Parts forum) city.

Drove this Ruf wheel "laden" '89 930 last fall. It and it's wheels "left a mark."

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750114280.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750114280.jpg

Thx!

The thing that determines s/r wrt the wheel is it's ET, higher numerical ET = lower s/r

a 911 w/ 7ET23.3 has a s/r of 52.4mm

a 930 w/ the 21mm spacer, whether from the o/s hub on late 930 or the 21mm spacer of early 930, has a s/r of 73.4mm

use a wider wheel like the early 911 Ruf 8s w/ ET 30 and the s/r goes down by the difference in Ets

the early Ruf 9 w/ ET17.7 would raise the s/r compared to a 7 ET23.3

RSR w/ the 21mm spacer and w/ 9ET3 has a s/r of 72.7mm

similarly track changes w/ ET changes, a 930 w/ 7ET23.3 wheels has a front track of 1432mm, 60mm wider than a 911 w/ the same wheel

the Ruf 8ET17.7 would reduce track by 35.4mm

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the explanation. I'll go an whiteboard a visualization.

If I do Ruf 9&10 x 17 wheels on a 930 / M491, what are the recommended tire sizes? I assume there are a few pairing options? What are the aggressive, middle and conservative sizing options? I'm not a teenager anymore, so would prefer to avoid fitment issues.

not to get back on topic ;) but I installed a SW chip (and a Fabspeed pre-muffler) on Thursday and Sat ran with them in our local PCA auto-x. The car definitely felt more alive and I was spinning the rears more than usual. Chirped 2nd on a couple of launches, and I am really not that aggressive. Did I measure anything? No. I told onlookers I did a 450hp E85 tune to see if I could get a laugh. My engine is kind of beat inside so I am not sure it would even be useful anecdotal data. (worn valve guides, pitted cams, oil leaks… the usual)
I also replaced the fuel strainer from the tank, although the old (36 yo) one did not look terrible.(which is good news)

re: things I don’t understand - I have no idea how you squish a fuel map into 8k of code. Obviously this was not written in Java ;) You have an idle switch (use idle map?), a WOT switch (use WOT map) but in-between there is a lot of ground (isn’t there?) Amazing stuff however it’s done. Kudos!

Starting seems a little better (fewer cranks), idle is perfect and stable, and it feels more like a good set of carbs now without that hysteresis I generally associate with EFI. Crisper, more lively? Hints of gasoline & pilsner? (Maybe) The top end seems better too. I don’t want to have to shift bc it is pulling so eagerly now.

Niggles? My anti-static wrist band’s elastic is failing just to remind me that I am getting old. Time for a new one I guess. #sigh

Overall the directions were clear and the process lacked drama - which is a good thing(tm) and the thing makes a noticeable difference, whatever that means. ;)

No real knowledge required for "performance" tuning, just a PC, an app, & an EPROM programmer. Even construction workers can do it;

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1750614428.jpg

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1177414-10-mpg-3-2-can-t-find-where-fuel-going-11.html

Laughable isn't?

For those who really can program, a PC app for "tuning" can be easily written in C/C+. If you disassemble the EPROM code, you could find the needed bytes to change in the assembly code.
A Google search might even find a "performance" tuning app you could download to your PC, maybe even a Mac version, the wonders of technology and the naivete of many!

first choice
245/40 & 275/35 x17 choices are Pirelli P Zero Rosso or Nanking CR-S or Hoosier R7

second choice 235/45 & 255/40 x17 BR RE-71RS or Hankook R-S4 or Maxxis RC-1
etc there are lots of possibilities

235/405 & 260/40 Michelin MPS4S isn't tpp bad

I'd avoid anything w/ 275/40 x17 as they are just too tall for most 911 drivetrains, you really want to keep the rears under 25.5" OD( <25" ideally) and ~20mm width stagger f/r

While the experts are here, I'll ask.

CAT delete gains how much performance ?

Interesting, is the crank to ignition sequence modified too ?

Closed loop idle control works very well.

By that, surely, you aren't referring to the idle.

Running a richer map would do some of that. How much are you gaining ?