Anyone install a 123 ignition in a 83sc

[Damon88]

Curious if anyone has any experience on installing a 123 Ignition plus distributor on a 83sc with vacuum and retard. I have one showing up today and I’m curious if I have to set up any perimeters after install besides basic timing. (Rev limits,advance curve?) and so on. Also if anyone has any tips on install. Or is it completely plug and play. Installing in a Stock 3.0 engine with ssi. I sent an email to 123 and haven’t received a response. Can’t seem to find any info on my question on their website. Cheers

[Nditiz1]

I will post pics and my diagram tomorrow.

[Schulisco]

I have an older 123 tune (USB version) on my '81 SC / 930/16 engine years ago as the SC version was in development. Shouldn't care you.

The 123 has only one vacuum connector for advance and retard. You can program 2 different curves the advance on the rpms and a separate curve for vacuum advance. The retard vacuum line is only necessary for the original dizzy to enable the retard quick enough when releasing throttle. With the 123 you can close it. On a 123 the one vacuum sensor enables advance and retard in parallel.

There are several version of the 123 available. So you have to decide which one is required for your car. You need to know:
- what kind of CDI box is installed currently? 6pin or 3pin?
- which dizzy is currently installed?
- is the dizzy a breaker or a magnetic version
- which tach is installed?

When the engine, the CDI box and the tach on your car is completely stock as the engine has been coming from the factory in 1983 then you should purchase the 123 replacement for 911SCs which is the preferred replacement for 911SCs with Bosch/Permatune 6pin CDI boxes. Then you only need to replace the original dizzy with the 123 dizzy and program it. Should be plug'n'play afaik.

Best you refer to https://123ignitionusa.com/.

The bluetooth version has the advantage that you can choose a immobilizer if desired. So the smartphone works as a key here. Some reported that it can loose connection sometimes. Don't know. I have the USB version, it has no immobilizer. The app provides a dashboard, with BT more comfortable to use when driving. No personal experience on that.

Thomas

[Damon88]

Originally Posted by Schulisco

I have an older 123 tune (USB version) on my '81 SC / 930/16 engine years ago as the SC version was in development. Shouldn't care you.

The 123 has only one vacuum connector for advance and retard. You can program 2 different curves the advance on the rpms and a separate curve for vacuum advance. The retard vacuum line is only necessary for the original dizzy to enable the retard quick enough when releasing throttle. With the 123 you can close it. On a 123 the one vacuum sensor enables advance and retard in parallel.

There are several version of the 123 available. So you have to decide which one is required for your car. You need to know:
- what kind of CDI box is installed currently? 6pin or 3pin?
- which dizzy is currently installed?
- is the dizzy a breaker or a magnetic version
- which tach is installed?

When the engine, the CDI box and the tach on your car is completely stock as the engine has been coming from the factory in 1983 then you should purchase the 123 replacement for 911SCs which is the preferred replacement for 911SCs with Bosch/Permatune 6pin CDI boxes. Then you only need to replace the original dizzy with the 123 dizzy and program it. Should be plug'n'play afaik.

Best you refer to https://123ignitionusa.com/.

The bluetooth version has the advantage that you can choose a immobilizer if desired. So the smartphone works as a key here. Some reported that it can loose connection sometimes. Don't know. I have the USB version, it has no immobilizer. The app provides a dashboard, with BT more comfortable to use when driving. No personal experience on that.

Thomas

Thomas . Thank you for replying. That’s a great deal of information. I have ordered the 123 ignition Dizzy that is required for a stock 3.0. I have a new rebuilt CDI from one of our members. I’m just not understanding what vacuum line hooks up to the new dizzy as it only has one port for vacuum. I have Two vacuum lines on my OEM dizzy. I have emailed 123 with no response.. and help on this would be amazing. Cheers

[Damon88]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

I will post pics and my diagram tomorrow.

Thank you, did you hook up one of your vacuum lines and plug the other. And lastly, did you program the curve or did it come pre programmed. Cheers

[Schulisco]

Welcome :-)
Here's an article written by user AndrewCologne showing the details about the vacuum lines on a 930/16 dizzy, it's automatically translated by Google from german:
https://nineelevenheaven-wordpress-com.translate.goog/unterdruckanschlusse-an-der-k-jetronic-fur-den-us-sc/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Original german link: https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/unterdruckanschlusse-an-der-k-jetronic-fur-den-us-sc/ Unfortunately Google doesn't grab all the pictures for the translation...

This should clarify your questions about vacuum retard and advance. For the 123 you only need the advance line. Close the retard line. Done.

Thomas

[Damon88]

Originally Posted by Schulisco

Welcome :-)
Here's an article written by user AndrewCologne showing the details about the vacuum lines on a 930/16 dizzy, it's automatically translated by Google from german:
https://nineelevenheaven-wordpress-com.translate.goog/unterdruckanschlusse-an-der-k-jetronic-fur-den-us-sc/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Original german link: https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/unterdruckanschlusse-an-der-k-jetronic-fur-den-us-sc/ Unfortunately Google doesn't grab all the pictures for the translation...

This should clarify your questions about vacuum retard and advance. For the 123 you only need the advance line. Close the retard line. Done.

Thomas

Amazing. Thank you Thomas. I appreciate your help with this. Cheers

[AndrewCologne]

All is now available in english as well:
https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/english/

And the direct link to the info regarding the vacuum connections:
https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/vacuum-connections-on-the-k-jetronic-for-the-911-sc/

[Dpmulvan]

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by AndrewCologne

All is now available in english as well:
https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/english/

And the direct link to the info regarding the vacuum connections:
https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/vacuum-connections-on-the-k-jetronic-for-the-911-sc/

+1

[Damon88]

Thank you to all for Your help. I appreciate the help and thank you for replying. Great information. All the best Damon

[Damon88]

Originally Posted by AndrewCologne

All is now available in english as well:
https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/english/

And the direct link to the info regarding the vacuum connections:
https://nineelevenheaven.wordpress.com/vacuum-connections-on-the-k-jetronic-for-the-911-sc/

Andrew, Your wealth of knowledge on these cars is truly amazing. Thank you for all your help. Your Word Press site should be bookmarked at the top of the tech section. Again, thank you!!

[Damon88]

Figured I would do an update after finally getting my 123 ignition sorted. Little disappointed in 123 Ignition's lack of information on set up. Only directions that came with the Dizzy were wiring instructions that were Easy for follow and install. But there was zero information on Centrifugal & Map curves set up. Not even a starting point. I searched every where on the web with no such luck. I reached out to 123 in Europe and a dealer in the US (Not 123 Ignition usa) asking for help. I offered to pay for the map curves needed for my engine.. The guys in Europe responded quickly, but had no idea on map settings. The dealer in the usa told me to basically sell it, and order one from them.Theirs comes already pre programmed... I offered to pay for a simple map setting, but was told no.. I don't understand peoples hesitation for helping someone asking to pay for the service on something as simple as a map curve.. So a Big thank you to Nditnz1 for helping with this! He mentioned to me if I had any other questions to get in touch with Icarp on the forums here. Sure enough, Ian called me and spent the time to sort out my final settings. He explained how to set it up and how the 123 dizzy needs to be set up. Big thanks to both Nick and Ian for your help Truly, I can't thank you both enough. I'm posting this so others understand that these 123 Ignition distributors need to be set up through the app, and there is more information needed that is crucial for set up. I wasn't aware that They don't come pre programmed. I cant blame anyone for this besides myself. Well, Unless you buy one from the one dealer in the usa that wasn't willing to help me. lol. I Hope this helps anyone that is looking to install one of these in their cars. Now that's its sorted the car is night and day better. Rant ended.... Cheers

[AndrewCologne]

Originally Posted by Damon88

Andrew, Your wealth of knowledge on these cars is truly amazing. Thank you for all your help. Your Word Press site should be bookmarked at the top of the tech section. Again, thank you!!

Thank you Damon, ... You are very welcome!

[Schulisco]

Damon, sorry to hear about. I can confirm that's also a bit complicated to get the right person in place. Ian is probabaly one of the best pro you can reach out in the US concerning 123.

Here are another threads talking about 123 and 911...
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1122806-any-one-running-programable-123ignition-distributor-2-2-a.html

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1125089-ignition-options-123-vs-perma-vs-cop.html

Probably it's a good idea to share the curves here or in those threads to remedy this situation...

Concerning the different approaches of the distributors - the ones with the switches have pre-programmed curves, afaik the tune versions always come without any curves. The first and foremost reference is the original ignition curve of the old dizzy. The centrifugal advance curve is pretty straight forward to program. But the fact that the 123ignition deals with kPascal instead of mmHg as vacuum unit is quite confusing. Usually vacuum pressure are given in mmHg from the Porsche dizzys. So you have to convert the values.

Leen from https://www.123ignitionshop.com/ is also pretty helpful on setting up the 123ignition. he's not specialized in the 911's but he's also very accessible for anybody having an 123 installed.

Thomas

[polpol33]

Hi Damon

I have ordered a 123Ignition tune+ to be installed in my 1980 3.0SC with SSI.
Could you please sent me the curves you used to get it running?
Thank you!