911 engine swap 3.0,3.2,3.4??

[Randolph H Lamp]

My car currently has a 2.7 engine. Always thought about up grading it to something larger for more power and long term reliability . So far , the 2.7 has not given me any reason to change it out , but you hear all kinds of stories about studs pulling out and that sort of thing. My engine was apparently rebuilt at some point , may have case savers, has no catylitic converters and has the Carrea tensioner up grade, turbo valve covers etc. It does not smoke, and has only one small oi leak, in one of the oil return tubes. Can a 2.7 be as reliable as the 3.0 if done correctlyand maintained? Waynes book seams to suggest that. On the other hand , I read about the reliability of the 3.0 but have heard of several cases where the head studs just snap off due to corrosion. That doesn't sound good iether. What are the benifits of the bigger engines other than the increase in HP. Where most of the problens solved in the 3.2 and 3.4. Do they have any short comings?

I only drive it a couple thousand miles a year, I wonder if it would be worth the cost and effort?

[k9handler]

you have come to the right place...you will get some very well thought out answers here from some great individuals who know these cars first hand. My knowledge is pretty limited, and I would say that every engine is going to have some sort of short coming...just some cause more worry than others as well as cost a hell of alot more.
I have not had any major setbacks with my 3.6 transplant, just minor routine maintenance that any DIY could handle.

Do a few searches and you will find many of the questions have already been answered. Good luck with it.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by Randolph H Lamp
It does not smoke, and has only one small oi leak, in one of the oil return tubes.
.........

I only drive it a couple thousand miles a year, I wonder if it would be worth the cost and effort?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Tom

[1fastredsc]

I second emcons statement.

[Rot 911]

You need to ask yourself what brings you the most joy with your 911. Is is working on it with an eye towards the need for speed? Or is it jumping in and hitting some curves at a spirited speed. If it is the former, upgrade to a 3.6. If the latter, stick with what you got.

[Par911]

Hey Randy,
Glad to see you are keeping the SC. Honestly if I was in your position, I would keep the car since it is in beautiful condition, and work with it. I think that you should go with an engine swap, I know that I will eventually swap my 3.0 for a 3.2 or 3.6 when I get my SC. You have a beautiful car, good luck getting the interior and exterior redone to how you want it. You should go with the RS america door panels, they are lightweight and look really cool, I know that I will get them. You can find them for around $200 a pair, if you look hard enough, try ebay. Once again thanks for letting me know about your 911sc. The pics are great.
Pari

[Randolph H Lamp]

Kurt V.

I am pretty happy with the amount of h.p. the car has with the 2.7. I have been racing a VW GTI with the SCCA for about the last six years or so and it pales in comparison to the 911,as far as power goes any way. I hope to get the 911 out on the track to just see how much quicker it is ,stock compared to a purpose built GTI. I think the 911 will require a bit more attention to drive quickly and will generate a significant amount of speed on the sratight bits ,that will have to be scrubed off. But I guess as long as the 2.7 is reliable , I'm fine with it.

Thaks for your post.

rhl

[Wayne 962]

The answer is yes. All Porsche engines have had problems / shortcomings from the factory that can be fixed with a good rebuild. I'll detail a few of them:

- Early 2.0 - intermediate shaft bearings, lack of piston squirters, generally a very reliable engine
- 1969 2.0 - Intermediate shaft bearings need upgrading
- 1970-73 - In general, very good engines, need oil pump bypass and pump upgrade, some mag case problems
- 1974-77 - valve guides, thermal reactor problems, mag case pulled studs
- 1978-83 - breaking head studs
- 1984-89 - bad valve guides, breaking head studs, snapping rod bolts.

Carrera Chain Tensioners - all but 1984-89...

Fixing these problems during a rebuild makes all of these engines better than the factory originals...

-Wayne

[APZak]

Hello,

I'm sorry to bring this post from the dead, but I found it using the search. I have a rather tired 1969 2.0L engine with the weber carburators. Owning a Nissan 240sx, I hear the word "swap" frequently as many owners swap JDM engines for more horsepower. There is a guy that owns a buisness www.afterdark-tuning.com and has his engines listed with prices. Is there anyone that sells Porsche engines and has a good reputation like this guy "Daunttess"? I'm sure Porsche engines won't be as inexpensive as those JDM engines, but about what am I looking to spend for a good condition 3.0 or 3.2? Could the weber carburators stay, and if they do, what kind of horsepower figures am I looking at? I'd be happy with 200hp in this light early 911. It's important that the swap stays fairly simple, and a typical mechanic would be able to complete the job. I want to try to stay away from the Porsche mechanics that charge 80+ an hour for labor. A friend of mine is a mechanic that works on common domestic and import cars so it needs to be simple enough for him to complete the task. I went to a place that works on Porsches near me and the guy told me I'm better off swapping engines than rebuilding my current 2.0 because it would end up costing the same, and a swaped engine will be newer, and have more power. He says this is why more people go this route. Is this true? Will it cost about the same to swap a motor vs. rebuilding the 2.0 and possibly adding S cams and such to give it some juice? Sorry for the long post, I'm trying to decide what to do. The current motor gets me around when it wants to start, but what fun is a Porsche without the speed? It's fun now, but my nissan is faster.

EDIT: oh yea, what wayne says makes me think twice about keeping the 1969 2.0. The 1969 is a very reliable engine if the bearing problem is fixed, right? Wouldn't a 3.0 go twice as long though (200,000miles vs. 100,000 mile limit with the 2.0)?

[IROC]

If you can find a documented, nice, newer engine to swap into your car, then yes, you can spend about the same (maybe less) than rebuilding the 2.0 liter and get more power out of the deal, etc. I'd be wary of swapping a 3.0 or 3.2 into the car with high mileage, etc., as you might just end up rebuilding that engine in the near future....

Swapping engines isn't cheap, though, as there are alot of hidden costs. I just swapped a really nice 3.2 into my '76 and all things considered it probably cost me $7k. I could have rebuilt my 2.7 for that much, but wouldn't have had anywhere near the same power. Things like a new clutch, fuel pump, coil, gauge sending units, fuel lines, etc., will nickel and dime you to death during a swap.

As for the difficulty, I put the 3.2 in mine with some pointers from the board here and had never even dropped an engine before. It's not too bad, really.

Good luck,

Mike

[HarryD]

APZAk,

If I am not mistaken, puting a later (3.0/3.2) into your '69 requires a bit more than the "typical" 2.7 to 3.0/3.2 sway due to how the tranny mates with the engine. Also, you have the 901 Tranny which may be subject to premature failure due to the higher than designed for torque. I am sure a search here will help to figure out which path you shoud take.

FWIW, I looked into a swap vs doing a top end for my 2.4 L CIS engine and opted to just refresh the engine. I know a saved a few $$$ and while not giving me all of the power that I could get from a 3.0, the refresh does help in the power department by allowing my engine to be all it can be.

[APZak]

Yes I never knew it would be more difficult to swap a newer engine into my car than a car with a 2.7. Right now I'm leaning towards refreshing my engine with possible piston/cam upgrades to give more punch to the dull "T". I thought if I swaped engines a tranny would come with the engine. (how it's done with nissans atleast). I'd love to loose the 4 speed because it would make my car quicker. If I go the rebuild route, I will probably end up looking for a 5 speed tranny as well if my clutch is no good. The previous owner said it was rebuilt, but didn't have documents to prove this. If I rebuild the 2.0 it should last 100,000 miles right? That's about the life spand of the 2.0 engine? I also have a place I would like to send my motor if I rebuild it because their reputation is excellent, though it comes at a price. I'm still researching this, and I'm definetly going to search around because I just spent 5 minutes searching and found countless threads that would be useful. I have to go now but will probably be back tonight looking into this. I want to upgrade my suspension as well as improve my brake system. This car is a money pit! Atleast it's going to be worth it. The place I went to that's got a great reputation told me a guy with an 80s cabrio got his engine overhualled and it cost him 4,000! That's what I bought my 911 for.


Hey Wayne is "How to Modify and Rebuild your 911 Engine" out yet?

[RallyJon]

Adam, you're in for a rude shock. There is unfortunately no Porsche analogue to the $3k JDM engine with 50% more power, EFI and a free, bulletproof close ratio gearbox.

With 911s you can spend a lot of money and get a little power, or spend a lot of money and get some more power.

Wait until you ask the obvious (for a modern tuner) question of how you put basic laptop programmable engine management on a 911. Or why 911 gearboxes shift like crap compared to the cheapest Japanese econobox.

If you have an older 911 and less than $10-15k to spend on performance mods, you should rationalize that your car will always be quirky, experiential, "fun" but not "fast", etc, etc and that any punk in a WRX or Honda with an engine swap will out-accellerate, out-brake, and out-handle you by a huge margin.

I'm loving my old 911 as a fun car and as a hobby, but these cars will shatter your idea of basic performance tuning pretty quickly.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by RallyJon
Adam, you're in for a rude shock. There is unfortunately no Porsche analogue to the $3k JDM engine with 50% more power, EFI and a free, bulletproof close ratio gearbox.

With 911s you can spend a lot of money and get a little power, or spend a lot of money and get some more power.

Wait until you ask the obvious (for a modern tuner) question of how you put basic laptop programmable engine management on a 911. Or why 911 gearboxes shift like crap compared to the cheapest Japanese econobox.

If you have an older 911 and less than $10-15k to spend on performance mods, you should rationalize that your car will always be quirky, experiential, "fun" but not "fast", etc, etc and that any punk in a WRX or Honda with an engine swap will out-accellerate, out-brake, and out-handle you by a huge margin.

I'm loving my old 911 as a fun car and as a hobby, but these cars will shatter your idea of basic performance tuning pretty quickly.

RallyJon,

Like you said, it's an "experience". I think part of the reason you do not get cheap (extra) power out of a 911 is that many of the "less expensive" improvements are already in the car as delivered. Add to that, some of the "quirky engineering" of the cars and the fact many years have passed since the less costly cars were new and, like you said, "rude shock" time. On the other hand,m i am not sure if I would have the same smile on my face driving on of those "tuned" Hodas.

[stormcrow]

Well, you could always add a V-8???? Well maybe???? Well, never.

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"