Steve Wong Rules!!!
 

Last night I made the first modification to my previously stock 3.2, installing Steve Wong's (Steve W) custom chip. This was not an impulse buy--I've been surveying various mods for a year. Pre-installation service and communication with Steve and installation instructions were excellent. Additionally, Steve guarantees satisfaction with his product. I'm obviously not an hp junky and have been pretty satisfied with my car's performance, so Steve's guarantee made it an easy purchase. Another advantage to this type of mod is that it's so easily reversible.
My first seat-of-the-pants impressions of the performance gains are very positive, based on a hour of driving around town and on the highway. The engine pulls more powerfully from low rpms, and feels like it gets "on the pipe" at about 3k instead of 4k. Throttle response and acceleration are much quicker. Engine speed drops less quickly on deceleration and downshifting. Because this is my daily driver, I didn't want an "upgrade" to make the engine temperamental at lower speeds. Again, I was presently surprised. Around town, the increased smoothness of response when depressing/releasing the accelerator virtually eliminates the herky-jerkies in traffic.
Additional considerations: Because the engine speed decreases more gradually when you go off the throttle, downshifting does not slow the car as quickly, so you use more brake force. On a couple of sweeping on ramps, when I punched it I got more front end lift than I'm used to, resulting in noticeable understeer--I'm glad the pavement was dry. The engine idles so smoothly that the distinctive "percolating" sound is tempered--I love(d) that sound, so this would have to count as the only negative, greatly outweighed by the advantages.
This chip has met my objective in upgrading--increasing the pleasure of driving my car. I recommend it to anyone with a similar interest. While my experience is unique to my car, others have been just as satisfied, and Steve's guarantee should make it a no-brainer. It is a very cost-effective upgrade.

Dan, that sounds like a great upgrade. Any other differences you've noted, like fuel consumption, cold start up, etc.? I wonder if it's available for the 993 (3.6)? :)

Jim--

I haven't had it long enough to gauge the fuel, but Steve says there should be no significant change. I would think though, that because of the increased acceleration at high throttle you'd be using more gas, but maybe more efficiently. I'm not really concerned with mileage, living so close to work. I've only started it a few times, and it seems the same, except for the smoother idle.

I dont understand why the engine speed would decrease slower off throttle--I thought this was a function of the weight of the flywheel!?

Jon--

I suspect it may have something to do with how quickly you release the throttle. I tend to do that more slowly in normal driving, as opposed to pulling off the pedal quickly in spirited driving. Yet even on quick downshifts it seemed the engine was maintaining more speed. Maybe it's an impression caused by downshifting at higher revs than usual because the car is accelerating more quickly and the engine revving more smoothly. But the definite sensation is that the car is slowing down less quickly on downshifting. Maybe Steve W or somebody else with more tech know-how can explain.

With regard to the different running conditions as a result
of the chip, the following may be the case:

!. The smoother idle, i.e. no more hunting (50-100 RPM
change), may be the result of no O2 operation which
increases performance and causes emissions test failures.

2. The less de-accel noted may result from the injectors
not being shut-off (std for emissions) at off-throttle
and above 1200 RPM.

You guys using these chips need to fully test them,
e.g. using a gas analyzer and a dyno, before you make
claims and possibly cause problems, e.g. pinging at
high temps/engine loads, and emissions test failures,
later for other Porsche owners.

There are always tradeoffs made when fuel injection
systems are designed to meet emissions standards,
driveability, and engine reliability! Has your new chip
compromised any of these?

Loren
'88 3.2

Steve Wong has any web site, contact info. about his ships?

I dont understand your motivation. You are so unremittingly negative about the performance gains yielded by computer chips that it makes me wonder about whether or not you have accepted the fact that the earth is round, and revolves around the sun.

There are far more happy chip owners out there than there are unhappy ones. The notion that the bosch DME system and its programming are perfect from the factory is simply uninformed. Even the factory generated different versions of the chip software (as im sure you know) in later years, that were more agressive than the 85 unit that this user replaced.

There are any number of porsche systems that rolled into service as barely adequate. AC comes to mind...oil cooling on early cars...shift mechanism in every 915. Why should motronic be any different?

Do you have any evidence that they dont make his care idle more smoothly? You use the word "may" with respect to the speculation that it defeats his 02 sensor and with respect to your thoughts on the decel rate...correct me if im wrong, but this would be.......conjecture.

Is it not as likely that the idle fuel maps are optimized and base timing increased?

Have you analyzed Wong's chips on a dyno and with a gas analyzer to verify that they DONT do what this user says they do? Have you verified that his car pings under load?

If not, your negative assertions dont add anything to this discussion other than hand ringing. This guy is reporting that he is happy with the product...why do you find this so threatening?

What is it about additional fuel and timing that you find so troubling? I dont get it.

Targaman, thanks for the feedback!

Lorenfb, first of all, my chips are designed to function will all emissions in place, that includes the O2 sensor. If you took my chip, put it into a 911, and went to a smog it at a California smog station, you would pass. Though you would realize factory emissions and fuel economy putting around town, and cruising on the highway, meeting California emissons is not the primary intent. But let me state this, I do not speak for other chips which you may have experience with, by my chips will NOT cause failure of any emissions equipment, which includes the O2 sensor and the catalytic converter. My chips have gone through extensive testing, and that includes exhaust gas analysis of air fuel ratios under actual conditions on the road with wideband exhaust analysis.

As for your concerns about pinging, I err toward the side of saftey for 91 octane when it comes to ignition timing, which may be unlike some of the other chips you may have had experience with. As an example, one of my recent customers Matthew Duran, who you may or may not have read a post from on my chip lives in Houston, Texas which 60% of the year is typically is 95-105 degrees through the summer with a 70% humidity index - heat index 105-115 degrees. He has to use his AC 70% of the year. Naturally he was most concered with predetonation as an issue. Well recently after installing my chip, last weekend, he drove 225 miles with a bunch of car buddies and this was his feedback:

"Drove 225 miles today in combination, stop and go, hwy and spirited hwy driving. It was 98F with a heat index of 110F. Pretty darn humid. Lots WOT runs through the gears. Topped out 4th numerous times. Never got an opportunity to bury 5th. Ran with the A/C on all day. Oil temp from just slightly over the first hash mark to the 9:00 postion. Didn't get any detonation! :-)"

Bear in mind, Matthew is not an unseasoned veteran at all with respect to engines, predetonation and chips. He's spent thousands over the years on chips for his various vehicles, his Carrera is just a toy. He's got a heavily modified Corvette pulling 700, yes 700 rwhp as verified by a dyno I might add.

Many tuners and engine builder will attest to the fact that a properly programmed chip will provide performance benefits to a 911, and that includes the likes of Bruce Anderson. If you are happy with your stock chip, then so be it, afterall, they say ignorance is bliss.

Steve W -
I was going to PM you - but figured this may have general interest too. BTW I thought it was common knowledge that Porsche delivered a detuned motronic system to cater to the lowest common denominator...

I have an 1987 Cabriolet that I would like to get a little more power out of. 3.2 stock yada yada. Mostly street, odd autocross and DE maybe once a year.

Currently has stock exhaust. Like many I have been reading all I can get ahold of on changes in exhaust and subsequent increase in HP. From what I have read - intake is not where the power is restricted - the key is the exhaust.

From your experience with the 3.2 - and before I start laying down some cold hard cash - what's the best route, and where have you had your greatest luck with chips. SSI's and premuffler and ghl or dansk muffler? Stock exhaust headers with premuffler and straight pipe? Any other combination? It seems there is plenty of conflicting advice around.

I don't have emissions concerns but I do live almost at sea level - and Florida's famous high humidity - luckily I don't drive my car that much in the summer and have easy access to 93 octane gas...

So, any advice?

Loren--

I had most of the concerns you mentioned. As I indicated in my first post, I did not just jump on this chip. I researched it and was satisfied it was a reasonable investment with virtually no risk. Concerning the O2 issue, the instructions for my chip indicate the O2 sensor must be hooked up for the chip to work properly.
To update, I just ran the car hard for over an hour, averaging 4500 rpms in 88 degree temperature, and didn't notice anything adverse. Oil temp just past the first hash mark, which is a little lower than with the stock chip. I emphasized in my post that it was a seat-of-the-pants evaluation. I have no idea how my engine would check out on a dyno. All I can say is that the car feels faster and "lighter" and is a hell of a lot more fun to drive than with the stock chip, which is saying something because it was a hell of lot of fun to drive before.

Somewhere there is a boot getting up close and personal with a dead horse.

I wonder Loren, do you have any hands on experience with Steve's software?

Ok you want hard data, here it is. The following is a dyno run from Don Van's Carrera, a very typical '87 3.2 with the 28 pin 358 chip. The only modification to it is a premuffler - the most popular modification among most owners. According to this chart, the car pulls 193.4 rwhp at 6100 rpm. Assuming a 15% drivetrain loss, that works out to 227 flywheel hp, 10 hp over the factory rating of 217. This is about right because premufflers have been dyno proven time and time again to increase peak power by 8 hp.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1060120185.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1060123775.gif

However, examine the afrs throughout the powerband and we can see that after the addition of the premuffler, the flow has increased so much that the afrs at WOT from the stock chip are way too lean from idle to 5300 rpm to make maximum torque and hp. Every tuner knows maximum hp is derived from a gasoline motor around an afr around 12.6:1, however a ratio from 12:1 to 13:1 will work fine as the variation in the power curve between those two ratios are minimal. Those who have experience with turbo systems, know that a afr of 12:1 is the optimum ratio against predetonation at high boost, and so is the ratio to achieve for the best balance of power and non-detonation, leaner than that and your predetonation curve accelerates. With an afr at 6000 reading around 11.8:1, we could lean it a bit, but we'll keep it near 12:1 as the factory originally programmed it overly rich for maximum insurance against predetonation. At this data point, we car more about insurance than eeking out a couple of more hp. With an afr of over 15:1 at and below 2000, and gradually approaching 13.3 at 5000, it would be preferable to readjust the afr nearer to 12:6, not only maximize power and broaded the torque curve, but again to minimize predetonation from lean mixures - and isn't that what we want, LorenBF? As this reprogrammed mixture is addressed particularily with the WOT map, part throttle fuel mixture are unaffected at cruise and light loads. At WOT we are only concerned with maximum power and reliability, and not with emissions, as we are only there for a small percentage of the time, unless you are racing, in which case who cares about emissions?

The chips I've programmed and provided for the above configuration address all of the above points in a very exact manner, and retime the injectors to deliver the optimum afr through the powerband, and that is why they work. What about the ignition timing you may ask? Without getting into a long dissertation, suffice it to say there is a bit left on the table as the factory originally programmed the cars to run on 87 octane while having to meet U.S. emission compliance. And if you're worried about predetonation, read my previous reply. There are a lot of other adjustments to the chip maps, but teaching the methodology to programming your own chip is beyond the scope of this reply and is only used to illustrate a point.

Jeremy, there's lot of knowledgeable guys on this board when it comes to 911 mods, and they're all pretty much somewhat in agreement. Your cheapest bang for the buck is probably going to be a chip and a premuffler like the Dansk which you can get from Wayne here at Pelican. Forget a straight bypass pipe. If you decide to backdate your exhaust, I'd go with a Dansk as I think you will find a GHL to be too loud - but this is a $2000 venture. After this everything is around $100 to $150 per hp and it pretty much up to your pocketbook. You may want to go over this old post for some ideas and guidelines:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/117710-steve-wong-custom-chip-installed.html

Jeremy,
 

You can not go wrong if you get a chip from Steve W. I have had a Steve W. chip in my 86 Cab for just over 2 weeks. Drove it to my factory today 25Mi. there and then back on the freeway and then back on Sunset Blvd. ( that is a great high speed curvy road made famous in past racing songs) The thing is it just keeps getting better. It is now sinking in just how much better it is. On the freeway you just hammer it and it moves. No lag at lower RPMs. It winds right up red line and it just feels better all over. It just pulls so much better. If the pre-muffler and Steve W chip are a a difference of 207 HP to 235HP
I am not sure, but if you go that way, you will never want to go back. Steves chip is a big bang for only $230. Also Your front brakes look great on your Cab.

I see your wife has a MDX. My wife does as well. I drive a Acura RL every day except Carrera Cab days. My love for these cars never ends.

Bob

i have full intetions off getting one of steve w's chips for my carrera after i get it back........but ONLY because the earth is actually round :D

Jeremy...I couldnt agree with you more. I have used chips, piggy backing and programming modifications on various makes and models of cars. Without a doubt...Porsche has the most detuned programming I have ever witnessed!

I challenged Steves programming skills.
He hit a home run as far as I am concerned.
Prior to programming I was embarrassed to even use the term, "throttle response", in the same sentence with my '87.
The car is now a joy to drive! :)

FWIW, I too have installed Steve's chip and I too am completely satisfied with the chip and Steve's knowledge and customer service. I have the Dansk premuff and sport exhaust and the chip just gave the car a nice kick in the butt. I don't care what it dyno's at, it doesn't ping, get hotter than normal, eat anymore gas, or cuzz me when I step on it. But it does get up and go more/quicker than it did. No problems noted here. Sounds to me like a happy customer Loren. Give it a shot you might be surprised.

Hey Steve . . . . . I think it's time for those stickers ;)

Thanks Bob - still love your car - and Steve thanks for your response - just figured that since an engine is nothing more than an airpump - and you are programming for that - that you might have a different angle/opinion. Seems you are in agreement with the dansk premuff - which is what I figured anyway. Thanks to everybody for their response...

Steve - Thanks for your response once I get the premuffler I will need to crack my DME and see what pin set up I have, then I will be getting in touch - What's the best way?

- Jeremy

FWIW, here is my dyno sheet with the stock exhaust system. Stock HP is rated at 217 for my car. Factoring in a 15% loss, this shows about 219HP. However, if you notice the AFM, the car is running very lean. The additional 2HP may be due to the lean condition. I'm assuming that if I had the correct AFM, my car would make about 217HP. With the Fabspeed pre-muffler installed as shown in the graph Steve W posted, my car made about 227HP. An 8-10HP gain for $250 is a great deal for these cars. $25-30/HP compared to $100+/HP with other mods like MAF's. Steve W is making me a chip that will hopefully realize similar gains. Where more grunt is needed is in the 2500 to 5000 range. I'll be happy if Steve can increase the performance in this area even if the peak HP remains about the same. Though 8-10HP thru the entire range would be sweet. I plan to dyno the car when the chip is installed. Not because I don't trust the chip Steve's making but for my own info. I'll post the new graph at that time. No pressure Steve. :)
BTW, as other's have mentioned, Steve's been great to deal with. This is the first time I've ever re-chipped a car so he's had to put up with a lot of newbie questions from me.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1060138418.jpg

Looks like some real data is now being posted.

Steve W. provided a dyno run with a stock chip and just a
pre-muffler mod which yielded 193.4 HP. Don911 posted
dyno runs which averaged 186.4 HP for a stock 3.2.
Now what's needed are some dyno runs with the "chip",
with a before and after on the same day (same weather)
with only a chip change.

Also, one needs to put the "chip" on a gas analyzer and
make a couple of before and after runs to measure HC, CO,
and especially the NOX (the std smog test - 15 mph and 25
mph).

So, if the "chip" can pass the smog tests and produce
more HP, then it's a street chip. If not, then its a race
car chip, and then let it be compared to other track mods.

Note: It's not reliable to make assumptions about drive
train losses because the HP number before and after
mods are small, e.g. :

If the rear wheel HP is 200 and one assumes a 15% loss,
then the flywheel HP would be 235. If the losses are really
13% then the flywheel HP would be 230. The 5 Hp error/
difference distorts the real performance gain.

Therefore, the only real measure of performance gain is
to use one standard of measure, i.e. the rear wheel
dyno output HP.

Let's gain some real numbers!

Loren
'88 3.2

What are you hoping to accomplish here, Loren? :rolleyes:

Since my car will never be "chipped"...I'm going to defend Loren here, because I consider him to be a guy who also knows his stuff. I think he's trying to "accomplish" access to some hard and meaningful data..the same scrutiny we all gave the "cool collar" and Chuck's elephant lines...I see nothing mean or spiteful in that.

Our local PCA has a "Dyno Day" for charity every once in a while. I'll test the two chips on the next one if I can schedule it.

Paul, you're probably right...sorry. I think Loren's tone in response to targa911man's testamonial posting was totally negative. I would've hoped his response would have been: "Gee, that sounds great. Are there any compromises that we should be aware of? I'm still on the fence about these chips, can Steve post some data to help me decide if this is the right thing to do to my car? Thanks!" But alas, that's not what was offered. The last post looked like a feeble attempt to save face by mobilizing the PPBBS to do extensive testing so Loren could bless it for us. I'm probably reading too much into this. So Loren, sorry about busting your chops. And thanks to Dan for his post on a project he's happy about, and thanks to Steve for providing technical info for all to consider. And thanks to you Paul, for catching me in one of those moods! :D

Like others that own carreras i have read with great interest the various posts on installing a modded chip in their car. So far I have never seen a negative post on Steve W. chips. The same cannot be said for other easily bought chips such as autoauthority and weltmaster. I feel if upgrades to a basically stock car can be made and it enhances your driving enjoyment then that is a good thing.:) Btw I didn't realize that earlier models could be chipped without installing a later injection system. If I could have done that to my SC to get a little more power I sure would have done so:)

While it's nice having dyno runs and working back to flywheel HP with an assumed correction factor, it is dodgey at best. Someone really needs to to a back-to-back comparison with a couple runs averaged for confidence in the numbers.

Factory numbers are the result of a power reading at a steady RPM taken 1 minute after temperatures have stabilized. This is impossible to duplicate on an inertia (i.e. Dynojet) dyno.

While the dyno numbers will likely back up Steve's claims, don't overlook his 100% customer satisfaction Loren. Every post I've read his customers are completely satisfied with the improved driveability. How many other aftermarket suppliers can claim his sucees rate, at such a low dollar to high fun factor?

could a more aggressive chip be programmed if no emmission requirements need to be met and still be safe for the engine--for max performance? I'm ready for my 3.6 chip Steve!

How hard is it to swap out the chip? I know the DME unit is under the driver's seat, but do you need to take the seat out first? I would think a unit like that would be sealed pretty tightly; is it hard to get it opened up? Is the chip soldered in or in a socket? I think I want to go this route but I'm a little afraid of wrecking stuff...

I agree that assuming 15% loss is a guide to ESTIMATE flywheel HP. I'm sure there's +/-'s in there but it's good enough for my purposes. The only data points are at the rear wheels. Even those numbers don't really matter. In order to test the effect of mods, the only thing that really matters is the differences before and after....assuming the dyno runs are done back to back.
When I do the next dyno test with Steve's chip, I plan on doing the first run with the factory chip installed. I'll then install Steve's chip and do a run. Even doing back to back runs, there's a chance for errors. Performance goes up as the oil temp increase. Ideally, I'd do 3 runs with each chip and compare the 3rd run as it's usually the best.
However, 6 runs would be two dyno sessions and dyno time is not cheap. I'm going to try to make sure my motor is all warmed up before the first run.

My key point is that we all would really like to know as much as
possible before we put mods on our cars, especially when it can
possibly affect our engines negatively via mods to the DME unit.

Asking questions should not cause such hostilities and negative comments.
As long as we know up front about the pluses and minuses of the mod,
we're all better informed, e.g. if the chip puts the engine on the edge of
not passing smog. It would be better if we knew this before going for a
smog test and have to revert to the stock chip to pass smog.

Loren
'88 3.2

Hey guys, I am not programming my chips to please smog nazis or pass CARB. If that is your objective, go bark up a different tree. Motronics just happens to be a system that runs much better with an O2 sensor and with that in mind I program chips with three primary objectives in order of importance:

1) reliability
2) maximum performance, response and power
3) good fuel efficiency at cruise and light loads

Since meeting objective 3 really has no bearing on objective 2, we just as a side benefit happen to have a emission compliant exhaust because the afrs have not changed to affect the California 15 and 25 mph rolling dyno test because we are in a very light load region. Besides, the O2 sensor still functions to bring the mixture right at stiochiometric whether you are running a cat, or not, or SSIs. I have told guys prior to their smog test to just do the 10 minute swap back to their stock chip if they want to make sure, but I have had several California guys report that they have passed smog with my chip in. Do a search, some guys have posted so. Good enough for me and end of subject.

With respect to dyno testing, Don has results that show a difference of 8 rwhp before and after the the premuffler. It's done on the same dyno under similar conditions. That is the final result. Who cares about flywheel hp and transmission loss theory - why is it even an issue? Are we dyno racing? Don's car may pass emissions with my chip, but he doesn't live in California and he is using a premuffler (read, NO CAT and he doesn't care).

Those of you who analyzed Don's afr's with the cat on, may notice how it seems to run lean. Well, note that the exhaust was measured post cat and that will not give a proper indication of afrs because the cat is effectively reducing the amount of CO that the analyzer needs to measure properly. To be accurate, exhaust needs to be measured pre cat.

Are there doubts that the performance and character of the car changed for the better? Should we assume everyone who has provided their feedback here and on Rennlist to be imagining things. I'm not providing mufflers that sound louder ergo 'it must be faster'. I understand that everyone should be sceptical about everything, that is why I've told everyone that if it doesn't perform completely to their satisfaction, just return it, no questions, no risk.

tommyd, the box is easy to remove from under the drivers seat. You do not take the seat out, manual or motorized. Just a ratchet wrench with a long 10 mm socket. Those guys who are trying to contact me, just email me at stevekw@pacbell.net As the original intent was never for this to become a full time thing, I have no website or advertising, but I may eventually as many of the essential questions could be addressed in a faq. Thanks all.

Guys:
I was an early..or "somewhat early" user of Steve's chips and have been very satisfied with the one he burned for me to accommodate my mild mods. Good friend of mine was also convinced to buy one too and his car had SSI's and a 28 pin chip whereas mine had a premuffler and a 24 pin chip. Both cars are 85's ...and we're both very pleased with the results.
I had intended to dyno my car since the mods. As a baseline, my 85 had dyno'd before the chip at 200 rear wheel hp ( fairly stock 3.2..so these are good numbers)...before I added the Euro premuffler and Steve's chip. Here's where dyno number can be misleading. If it's an inertial dyno, the car is in 3rd or 4th gear and a rolling start at 3000 rpm is measured at full throttle until you go past 6000 or 6500 rpm. The increase in drum rotation speed with respect to time is a direct torque read out which then gets mathematically related to HP. This test says NOTHING about part throtle response which Steve's chip improves by a considerable amount.
So although i think I'd be getting 216 rear wheel hp or so...it really doesn't matter as it's at least as strong as before with a much fatter mid range torque and much better "tip-in" throttle response, either from idle or in mid range.
A home run......runs fairly cool at track conditions too, and I was worried about this. Richer running = cooler but more advance curve = hotter so I didn't know which one would win. Well, even here it runs no hotter than before for DE days at the Glen.

----Wil Ferch

Guys, Guys, Guys, get the chip already. You guys have probably paid for about 10 chips due to lost billable hours pontifficating this silly subject. Chips work. Put one in and let her rip.

Yea, Yea, chip shmip. I put a "Type R" sticker on the back of my '85 Euro and gained at least 25 RWHP!
D Hanson, I like your style!

I just spit my coffee all over the monitor! Thanks Ted.

Ted--

Do you have a dyno test to back up that claim?

Why so much scrutiny over such a small $$ mod?

Steve's chip was the best mod I ever made to my car.

It's not like you are dumping $500 on a mod that may or may not work. Ridiculous...dyno, no dyno, it's whatever works best for you and your car.

The seat does not need to be removed and if you don't have to solder in a socket the first time, takes all of about 10 minutes to change in or out.

Steve took the time to send me multiple chips (of which I still owe him) so that he could best match my mods with what he had to offer. The results are outstanding, I know my car and it has more HP. Not just seat of the pants. Steve was also the first to make me realize that mods need to happen as a complete system...chip, intake, by-pass, exhaust etc. Just doing one will not yield all of your potential gains and may actually decrease HP.

Maybe the 84's as the first year of Motronic are the ones that can take the most advantage of the chip mods.

My car never idled so smooth or pulled so hard in all gears. First gear has almost become useless with the added HP, it is simply too short and I can't shift fast enough into second to keep up with the revs.

You cannot go wrong with Steve's chip...as many others have said before.

-Jeff

Why the scrutiny...??
Dunno...maybe because if the advance timing and fuel delivery alterations were done by someone who *doesn't* know what they're doing ( not Steve's case, BTW)...then it might just lunch your motor !
--Wil Ferch