Fuchs experts - Interesting questions

Ray 911s · 08-28-2003, 12:52 PM

I saw a pair of what I think are Fuchs wheels, but they are quite odd. Either meticulous fakes, or a custom or low volume wheel. These wheels show all the signs of being early (deep) 15X6 Fuchs; the faces and rims are identical in every way to the verifiable genuine early deeps I already have on the shelf. Same tooling marks, same bulge around the valve stem, etc. On the back of the wheel, the hub bears the stamp 1068 in the correct location, and the triangle logo is correct and in the right place. There are, however, no other markings on the wheel. No size or part number stamps in the usual places. The wheels have been stripped in the past, but I think it far-fetched to assume that the part number and size would have been removed in that process, but still leave the Fuchs logo.

Do you know of anyone who went to this much trouble to fake a wheel with the Fuchs logo in the forging? Fuchs has had trouble with stamps in the past - I have a 9X16 in which the stamp was placed upside-down and states 6X16, and bears the correct 9X16 part number. Back before poke-yoke, I guess. : )

Here's the kicker. If these wheels didn't look so absolutely correct in every other way, I would call them fakes right away - because they are 15X7 early deeps. I looked at them and nearly kept walking, amused by the extent to which other companies reproduced the look of Fuchs, but went back to look more closely and found the Fuchs logo. Most fakes were "legit" look-alikes made by other companies who copied the Fuchs design but used their own brand and logo - or no logo at all. Did anyone actually make "bootleg" Fuchs?

Is this a prototype or low-volume racing wheel used by the factory perhaps?

Early_S_Man · 08-28-2003, 01:03 PM

Ray,

On an early 6 x 15 that I have ... the part number is stenciled, rather than being molded by the forging process! If the anodizing were stripped off my wheel chemically, rather than mechanically ... the part number would disappear! It sounds like your 'questionable' wheels are of a similar lot as mine.

Are the small, radial reinforcement ribs on back side present?

Ray 911s · 08-28-2003, 01:55 PM

Yes, the backsides are identical to the 15X6 early deeps including the ribs.

Ray 911s · 08-28-2003, 02:01 PM

Has anyone een the 901.361.012.05? Does this wheel have the same face as the early deep 6 (901.361.012.06)? Might be the ones.

Eric Coffey · 08-28-2003, 02:28 PM

Sounds like the real deal to me. probably just a faint/missed part number stamping or steciling that was stripped as Warren mentioned. The few fakes I have seen up close are fairly easy to distinguish (rough texture on the backside from gravity casting, valve stem in the wrong place, "squarish" petals, variation in the weights, etc.).

mskala · 08-28-2003, 04:08 PM

Quote:

because they are 15X7 early deeps

901.361.012.05 is the rare 911R rim. That is the only
early 7 that I know about. These are worth $$$.
Offset is 49mm if you need to check.

Mark S.
'70 914-6

Ray 911s · 08-28-2003, 04:17 PM

49mm exactly. I've also located some photos and have done a comparison. They're the real deal. Thanks for the help. Until today I had never heard of a 911R 15X7. They'll look nice under my 911T, don't you think?

Cornpanzer · 08-28-2003, 04:45 PM

Not nearly as nice as under my 70 911S!!!!!!

AbbyAk · 08-28-2003, 04:59 PM

I need a pair of those too!!

69 Soft Targa · 69 Soft Targa's Garage

Sounds like we're on to something.

I have a 4 1\2 x 15 Fuchs which also has a stenciled number.
The part# is incomplete and barely visible.
I'd say the stencil was used as back up ID for those wheels
without legible #'s.

So... what did you pay for them?

901/05 · 901/05's Garage

more on the back of the wheels here .

Shawn.

Alan.UK · 08-29-2003, 12:07 AM

Strangely enough this is the second 7R wheel find I have heard in as many weeks.

I have also just received a pair of deep-dish wheels with a 49 mm offset, but mine have been widened by welding in a inch thick band. They look great, I will hopefully get some pictures soon.

Alan.UK

dvkk · 08-29-2003, 02:24 AM

Ray, another way you can tell for sure that you have the real deal is the weight. The original 7Rs come in at 12lbs. That's almost 1 lb lighter than a 6.
From a previous discussion here, the vast majority of 7R wheels did not have part number markings or size markings. My theory is that they stamped the center from the same blank as a 5.5, and during the spinning process they stretched it out to 7". Evidence to back this up is that the 7R weighs exactly the same as a 5.5. Also, in 1968 when the 911R was being made, the only size Fuchs you could get was the 5.5

Paul Franssen · Paul Franssen's Garage

Now, this Pelican is a great, wonderful Porsche bulletin board and forum, and sometimes ...too much is just too much... I've been reading many threads about rims, tire sizes, and Fuchs rims in particular. A month ago I took off my 4 Fuchs rims to thoroughly clean them, in particular the back sides, and to have a good look at them.

My 15 x 7 and 15 x 8 Fuchs rims carry numbers embossed exactly like the picture of Nick-Moss' backrims on the "Early 911S registry" bulletin board. And a few posts later, one andyjboy states the little triangle with stylized foxhead is NOT the Fuchs foxhead logo, and proceeds to show two other and different "renditions" of the foxhead logo.

Exactly how many variations on that famous foxhead are there?
And if the little triangular logo is NOT the Fuchs foxhead, then WHOSE is it???

Can anyone list the various "copycat" producers of (fake) Fuchs rims?

(I'm afraid I will only add to the confusion...)

dvkk · 08-29-2003, 10:13 AM

That triangle logo is Porsche's logo. I've seen it on many other Porsche parts that obviously weren't made by Fuchs.

American Eagle is one company who used to make cast aluminum Fuchs copies. They no longer make them.
Rumour has it CB Performance in CA is close to releasing a reproduction of the 4.5x15, and
Flat Four of Tokyo is working on a 6x15, or 5.5x15. They are also working on a reproduction of the Mahle gasburner.

dvkk · 12:16 AM

This is the wheel Alan is talking about, the one that was widened.

andyjboy · 08-30-2003, 02:11 AM

dvkk - I hope that isn't the wheel that Alan is talking about :

"I have also just received a pair of deep-dish wheels with a 49 mm offset, but mine have been widened by welding in a inch thick band. They look great, I will hopefully get some pictures soon. "

...as the picture in your post is one of my deep-dish Fuchs wheels that I recently had widened to 911R (49mm offset) specs in Germany !

I posted pictures (including the one above) in another recent thread on 911R wheels.

Incidentally, 911R wheels did have part numbers, fox heads, & size markings but these were 'rubberstamped' on in ink rather than being embossed as on 'regular' Fuchs.

Andy
'69 911E--------->R

dvkk · 08-30-2003, 09:55 AM

Oops! Sorry Andy, you're right. I originally typed "Andy" in my previous post then changed it when I saw Alan above. An easy mistake, how many guys from the UK who's name starts with an A could be getting custom widened R wheels at the same time?

Ray 911s · 08-30-2003, 10:09 AM

I read the various threads on 911R wheels that come up after a search of this board. It sounds like the correct set up is early 15X6 on the front and 911R 15X7 on back. Did/does anyone run 911Rs front and rear?

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Ray 911s, would you please take a coulple of minutes to measure your wheels for this thread

You are in a unique position to contribute.

TIA