AutoX'd the Cayenne today!!

[rvanderpyl]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
The Wall Street Journal quoted Porsche as saying that they needed to sell 25K of the Cayennes this year in order to "break even." Estimates are that dealers are selling about 1000-1400 per month, well below this goal. Also, this "break even" point was calculated when Boxsters and 911s were actually selling well (they aren't these days). If Porsche doesn't sell 2000 of these Pepper Wagons a month, then they might be in some trouble. I know nothing about the financial condition of the company's balance sheet, but I would guess that they borrowed heavily to invest in building the Cayenne.

I would guess that there is quite a bit of nail-biting going on in Stuttgart right now...

-Wayne

Porsche paid for the Cayenne development and manufacturing entirely out of cash flow, in fact they even declined offers of tax payer subsidys from the local goverment. (Arousing the ire of BMWs management who said that it was in the best interests of a companies stockholders to take advantage of all financing that was offered for free, a point that Weiderking (sic?) said was one of the things wrong with companys today. That they only considered their stockholders, and not their communitys.)

Unless something major has changed, Porsche was originally claiming they only need to sell 7000 per year to cover costs. What does Porsche consider break-even? And are they talking about the Cayenne only, or covering the lower sales of the Boxster and 911 so as not to show a drop in sales.

Personally I was dead set against the Cayenne when I first heard of it, however after everything I have read, and seeing them in person, if I could afford it, and I was in the market for an upscale SUV (fat chance) it is the one I would buy.

And quite frankly I doubt if there is one in a 100 people who frequent this board who really cares what Porsche is building, they aren't buying new ones anyway, no matter how good they are. So as long as Porsche stays in business, and can continue to produce parts for the cars we really love who cares how they do it? I don't really care if they are racing, I don't thing that they should be getting 'back to their roots' by building a light weight affordable sports car, affordable is not Porsches roots, they were always at the top end of pricing no matter the era.

Lets face it, what people on this board want is some sort roll back in time, but you all want to making todays money and be able to buy a brand new RS for 73 prices. Well it ain't going to happen, goverment regulations, and the fact's of life of a small manufacturer means Porsche cannot build a cheap high volume car without it being another rebadged Volkswagon. And none of you were buy it if it was.

[BGCarrera32]

That what you're hinting at, BG?

Well, I dunno...I just have to scratch my head a little when a company that size refuses to abide by rules which require them to disclose the financials on a regular basis...

On the other hand, as I understand it, the Cayenne project was financed with cash. So I guess then the question is, if Porsche can finance it projects without the need for outside investment, are its financials really the general public's business?

All good questions...

[Schuey]

Originally posted by bb80sc
I cannot understand why you guys get so worked about the Cayenne thing. Did you honestly expect Porsche to build the early 911 forever? The only fact that I am trying to convey is that Porsche did a superb job executing the performance aspects of the Cayenne.


Wayne, bummer about them not getting back to you. I received both an email reply and a postcard with my confirmation number. I was actually looking for you and other Pelicanites. Guess everyone else was to embarassed.....

Oh, and Schuey, remember, we are all driving souped up volkswagens, and REAL Porsches are air cooled. I notice you own a 944

As far as the Suburban, I have vowed to never by another POS like a Chevy again.

Sorry after I re-read my post it came across as more rude than I thought it would...

what I meant to say is that I find it humorus that someone would spend such a large amount of money on a SUV...sure it has power, but so does the Chevrolet...

I am by NO MEANS a purist...actually I'm the purist nightmare...

as far as someone calling a Chevrolet SUV a POS...well those are fighting words...

If Porsche wants to make an SUV, it's fine by me, but I feel they have alot to be desired for what I want an SUV for...room, power, towing, family, hunting...the Porsche SUV offers me power, something I can get more of (towing) with a lower cost of ownership in a Chevy Suburban...

For example: I can get a Mallet Chevrolet Tahoe for around 50k for AWD and 45k for 2WD which sports:

6.0 510-hp/562-lb-ft supercharged V8
4828 lbs
0-60 5.0 seconds

Mallet could boost that engine to 600-hp if needed...

pretty impressive IMO

What I believe Porsche should be doing is creating a $35,000 sports coupe...something to compete with the Nissan, Mustang, etc. Give us a no frills, fast coupe with style...bring back the 911SC!

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by rvanderpyl
Lets face it, what people on this board want is some sort roll back in time, but you all want to making todays money and be able to buy a brand new RS for 73 prices. Well it ain't going to happen, goverment regulations, and the fact's of life of a small manufacturer means Porsche cannot build a cheap high volume car without it being another rebadged Volkswagon. And none of you were buy it if it was.

I agree with your post wholeheartedly. I don't understand the call for an 'affordable' Porsche. New Porsches have never been affordable. I think we should be happy Porsche made great cars in the 70s and 80s. I never thought I'd own a Porsche 911 at a young age. I thought they were crazy expensive. That's what I get for 'thinking.' Would I trade my SC for a 993 twin turbo? Probably so, but that doesn't mean I am not ecstatic for what I do have now. Leave affordable to the Japanese. Personally, the 996 should be more expensive, so it can distinguish itself from the other plastic, disposable cars on the road. Give it more character and exoticism at the expense of price. An SC was in the $30k range in the 80s. Don't tell me $75k is not cheap today.

I still do not like the concept or the physical exterior of the Cayenne. However, the reviews from those who've driven it seem very positive. It may be the best SUV all-around, but it costs an arm and a leg. What if Porsche built the best sports car all-around (massive power, trick light, and simple)? What are the chances that car would be priced less than $70k? I think that car would still be priced in the stratosphere, and once again, the purists would not be happy.

I guess it is too easy to sit behind the keyboard and talk about the ideal way to run a business. It is easy to take risks, when your arse isn't on the line. Porsche is going for profits. Tell me a company that isn't, and I bet that company runs the risk of going out of business. Porsche's policies do NOT affect the degree or the fashion by which I enjoy my fabulous 78SC, so why worry. Porsche's new cars do not address my wants, but perhaps they are making someone happy. After everyone else is happy, Porsche just might build something to make the gearheads happy once again. Well, at least I can hope, eh?

Jürgen

[motion]

I think a lot of the dissent from the purists stems from the fact that the Cayenne is just so friggin ugly. I for one, think Porsche completely blew it on the design. It looks like a Hyundai Santa Fe for crepe's sake.

Now, if Porsche had created an SUV that performed extremely well, which they managed to do, but looked great.... something that we Porsche people could point at and say, "Yep, that's a Porsche, all right", then we'd have a different situation on our hands.

What if the Cayenne looked like a Infinity FX45? With 500 HP? Hell, I'd be excited!

The thing's ugly as hell; it reminds us of the mistakes of their past.

[k9handler]

I can't afford a new porsche...so I drive mine and I am happy with it!!!

Give me a Cayenne...and I would gladly drive it with the family, and my ol' 75 would still be my favorite to drive.

[s2per]

The Cayenne is a fine, well-engineered niche vehicle. It is not a mainstream, volume-production SUV nor was it intended to be one. It's a boutique kind of SUV, and the less-expensive sister Toureg (sp.?) is an attractive alternative if this size and type of vehicle appeals to you.

Some of us can't or won't consider it. My business requires an open bed vehicle, and I need a tow vehicle with real torque. My Avalanche 2500 with the 8.1 litre V8 (yup, 496 cu. in.) has a few Amurrican fit/finish letdowns, but I love it. When you need real room in a truck, you can't beat the USA-built vehicles for value/reliability/comfort.

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Tom and I have indeed discussed contingency plans in case Porsche goes under (it would be a major problem for us).

-Wayne

But a much bigger problem for Porsche.

[Bobboloo]

What if the Cayenne looked like a Infinity FX45? With 500 HP? Hell, I'd be excited!

My sentiments exactly.

Porsches timing is really off on this SUV. If it was still 1997 the Cayenne would be a slam dunk. Not only is the styling dated but the concept is dated.

Now where's that Carrera GT?

[MFAFF]

The Cayenne was funded out of cash reserves rather than loans etc precisely to keep track of investment and any financial problems would be internal and not dependent on external influences.

The reason why Porsche do not want to be listed on a market which demands quarterly results is that they feel this is too short a time span to produce figures giving the overall picture...Three months is a very short time in car terms with respect to development and model life times but a correct period for other listed companies so they want to be listed on a market which gives them what they want.
They are aiming for long term investors rather than those seeking more rapid financial increases.

Its an unusual beast having seen a shed load yesterday at the UK Annual P-car Club weekend amongst all the other P-cars and hundred of 911s. Did I hear the Porsche had done quite a lot of work on the Santa Fe, as the engineering consultant arm of course?

Give the car some time......I wouldn't mind one if I could justify its size, and trying to park that beast in Central London would be more than difficult.

This attitude seems very familiar as every time Porsche bring out a new model the whole 'family' have pretty tough things to say, its very good to know that we are all so passionate about what the company does because it means we care...which is more than can be said for many car companies.

Rant over.

[CarreraS2]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32

On the other hand, as I understand it, the Cayenne project was financed with cash.

That's a lot of cash for a company that *needed* to make an SUV to "stay afloat."

Funny thing is, I think the truck will have exactly the opposite of the intended effect on Porsche.

(I agree with Richard, too - the thing is an undistinguished, boring blob of a vehicle that already looks outdated. I think the worst part about it is that there were so many other, better things Porsche could have done with the money if they wanted to expand their line).

(There's a funny blurb on the last page of this week's Autoweek - a quote from designer J Mays, talking about the power loss at their studio which caused the airconditioning to fail - the designers called Mays in a panic and said "The power is out and the clays are melting! They are all starting to look like Cayennes!")

[Jay Auskin]

The Car Connection reports that the Cayenne will be available with a V6. This will definitely appeal to those only concerned about image, and make it more affordable. The Cayenne will likely be a huge success for Porsche, despite the fact these mega-priced units aren't making the figures they need.
V6 Cayenne

I would have bought one, but I spent too much at Pelican Parts this month.

[BGCarrera32]

For example: I can get a Mallet Chevrolet Tahoe for around 50k for AWD and 45k for 2WD which sports:

6.0 510-hp/562-lb-ft supercharged V8
4828 lbs
0-60 5.0 seconds

That's great, but you forgot a few features...

You had to buy the tuner version
Instrumet cluster looks reminiscent of a Fisher-Price kids toy
45,000 mi and I bet you need more than minor service
You have a couple months before the plastic starts falling apart
A tanking resale value the moment it leaves the lot
A ride just like everyone else that tows a boat in this state

Not trying to be smug about your post per say, but when someone calls a Chevy SUV a POS there's often good reason for it. You get what you pay for...

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
.... but when someone calls a Chevy SUV a POS there's often good reason for it. You get what you pay for...

There in lies the reason I said what I did. I had a '98 1500 Extended cab truck with tow package and 5.0 V8. Rated at 6500lbs towing, IIRC. In the first 6 months the ENTIRE fuel injection system went out, A/C went out, and tranny slipped so bad I could barely pull my boat out of the water. On top of that were the various plastic pieces falling off. Everything was replaced under warranty, 'cept for the tranny, I returned the POS to the dealer and it ended up somewhere in Oklahoma. Hope they are happy with it. My Tundra, on the other hand was a sweet truck and ran circles around the Chebby, even with the smaller displacement motor.

[cegerer]

Let me address a few points as someone who just bought a Cayenne and has 'hands-on' experience. I've been driving various GM full-size trucks/SUV's for the past 6-7 years as well. The GM vehicles have been reliable, well-built, solid transportation. But forget ANY comparison - whether they've been 'tuned' or not. Horsepower and 0-60 times are meaningless. The Cayenne is a totally different type of SUV and it's only real competitor is the BMW X5 4.4/4.6. The best way I can describe it is a 4-door successor to the 928. I've driven 928s and that's what the handling, the ride and the power remind me of.

Styling? I was a critic, but it's growing on me with time. What doesn't come across in photographs is the substantial proportions of this vehicle. It's size just 'looks' different from other SUVs. I am truly amazed by the attention this thing draws - I didn't anticipate it at all. I'm certain that most people do not know it's a Porsche but just know it is something significant. There is NO POSSIBILITY that the latest Hyundai, Nissan or whatever other SUV de jour gets a second glance - the proportions aren't there. Example: yesterday a couple in their 60s pulled up alongside me at a stop light in a GMC Envoy. They had been driving alongside me for quite a ways checking out the vehicle. The woman finally rolled down the window and asked 'what is that?'. 'It's a Porsche'. 'Wow, that is absolutely beautiful'. There's one unsolicited opinion from someone who never heard of a Cayenne. Nearly every time I stop somewhere somebody asks either what it is, or they say, 'wow, I've seen these in the magazines but not in real life and it's awesome.' I'm very, very surprised at the reactions to this thing. -- Curt

[Schuey]

calling a Chevy a POS is over generalizing their SUV line...last time I checked consumer reports, it ranked them rather favorable...with that being said, Porsche has had it's share of known issues on our 911's...never have I been so excited, yet so scared when buying an automobile...head studs, pop-off valve, tensioners, etc. when my father read through the books I had his words were the same as yours BG and bb...POS German car...

he has owned GM products starting with his 65 impala ss, his split window '64 vette, many pickups and suv's...to him and the majority of chevrolet owners they are "like a rock" and for good reason...

BG...my '82 911SC and '88 944 have more cheesy plastic on them than I care to admit...and from what I understand so does the P-SUV...regardless your going to get this...plus you mention that once you drive it off the lot you lose your shorts...that's why I think it's crazy to spend 80k on a SUV that will lose it's shorts once you drive it off the lot...it's a P-SUV, not a GMC...

but to each his own...

[fauxpasdedeux]

bullSh##t
If Land Rover is still in existance, Porsche is not going to die.

[motion]

Sorry Curt, we're still calling a spade a spade. Don't matter what the folks in Michigan think of that fancy truck.

I had the same reaction with my Range Rover several years ago... "oooh what's that?", "oooh that must have been expensive"... little did they know it was a $8,000 POS.

[cegerer]

"Sorry Curt, we're still calling a spade a spade. Don't matter what the folks in Michigan think of that fancy truck."

Heheheheheheheee ..... would it change your mind if the reaction were the same in Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan????? Go borrow one for a couple of days and report back to me ........ -- Curt

[OVRSTR]

Cegerer, your observations and comments are spot on. For some reason, people chose to comment, quite vociferously, about a vehicle with which they have had no hand's on experience with. Granted it's not a 911, but for what it was designed to do, it's extrordinarily capable. I cannot even imagine how impressive the turbo must be. As you stated, the general public seems to be wild over this thing. I can drive my 930 and not get a glance and when I'm in my Cayenne people are driving off the road looking at this thing. I'm ALWAYS questioned in parking lots, by valets etc. The thing does have some real presence in person painted in the right colors and correctly optioned. I'm sick of the Pelican's whining...drive it then comment or else you're talking out your ass.