Should I delete my A/C?

[shrouded]

While reviewing instructions for my chain tensioner upgrade this weekend, I realized I will have to remove my A/C condenser. Thinking about this made me wonder whether I should remove my A/C system, or leave it in & try to get it blowing cool. Here are the facts:

• 1982 911 SC. ~96k miles. I bought it this spring.
  
• System has the York compressor.
  
• Turning on the A/C blows air... it just isn't cool.
  

I live in New Mexico, & could definetly use some more cooling. As the system works now, I don't use it. I have enough other projects for the summer that I don't want another 'major' one. What are the odds that making some hoses & recharging with Freeze 12 will improve my situation? If I expect the cost on this project to exceed $200-$300, I will probably leave it alone until next summer.

If I decide to let the A/C project wait, should I pull the system until next summer? A system that I don't use will just be dead weight, & taking it out would give me a good chance to inspect all of the parts, etc.

Has anyone else had to make this decision? What did you do? What do you suggest?

Thanks--
Rob

[rstoll]

I live in Louisiana and my York system worked fine. I didn't use it much, so I removed it along with backdating the heat. Much cleaner engine compartment. Air cooled engine suffers enough in hot climates without the added load of air conditioning. Anyway, the car is more fun to drive with the top open and windows down.

[shrouded]

Thanks for the suggestion. If I decide to take it out, how hard is the process? Has anyone seen a how-to guide for it? How much of a PITA would it be to put it all back in later? How about a partial removal (pulling major components, but leaving wiring, switches, etc. in place)?

[ruf-porsche]

If you're going to remove the major componets such as compressor, and condensors and leave the hoses in the car, buy some caps to cover the hose fitting. You don't want to leave the hose open and have dirt enter the hoses. Dirt in an a/c system will ruin the system in no time.

If the system is still full or have freon on in it bring it to a a/c shop so that they can recover the freon. If you let them have the freon, they may give you a break. Don't let it out into the atmosphere.

[shrouded]

I believe the system is bone dry. I have meticulous records from the PO's, & there is no mention of a recharge. In any case, which parts can I safely remove without having the system evacuated? The 101 parts book talks about removing the compressor without having the system evacuated first. How far can I go without releasing the gases? Should I have it evacuated if it looks like it is empty?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

How long has it been empty? Seals start deteriorating without the lubricants in the coolant.

[shrouded]

I don't know how long, so I have to assume the worst. The PO kept it as a garaged Sunday driver for something like 9 years before I bought it. It was pretty well maintained, but I don't think it was recharged in years. I think I have to treat it as if it has been empty for a long time.

[Joe Bob]

Since it uses the old hard to get/expensive R-12, you would need to upgrade the compressor and hoses if you went to R-134 anyways......why bother capping them?

[MBAtarga]

Install of the tensioner upgrade should not require the removal of your AC compressor (or condensor - I believe you meant compressor). If you do not have a rear fender cover to protect the quarter panels and rear valence for engine compartment work, use a blanket. You should be able to remove the mounting hardware for the compressor and gently sling it over the side and rest it on the right quarter panel - on a blanket/pad to protect the body. You can use a rope or bungie cord and strap it from the compressor to a hard oil line or suspension on the underside of the wheel well.

[jazzbass]

I just removed my A/C, for these reasons:

1. I hate A/C, and only use it when necessary or my wife is in the car
2. The A/C in my 911 didn't work and I didn't feel like spending the $$ for R-12 or a R134 conversion
3. Remove some weight. THe compressor and the blower in the smuggler's box are heavy. I think someone posted a weight of ~75 lbs total
4. Working in the engine is so much better w/o A/C.
5. I live in a temperate climate, not the desert

Removing the system is pretty straight forward since it is really and afterthought add-on to the car in the first place. So far I've removed the compressor, condensor on the decklid, the blower in the front and the inside switches. Next I have to remove the rest of the hoses and the blower from the front.

[jmz]

jazzbass, what you call temperate we call freakin cold!

[shrouded]

Originally posted by MM83targa
Install of the tensioner upgrade should not require the removal of your AC compressor (or condensor - I believe you meant compressor).

Thats correct... I meant compressor. Thanks for catching it.

[Jim Sims]

As usual I am swimming against the school. I am putting A/C back on one car and installing it for the first time on another. We just had (last Sunday) a PCA Roadrunner Region tech session on 911 air conditioning in White Rock near Los Alamos. One car, an early 80's SC with the York compressor, was converted to 134a using the Griffiths compressor upgrade kit number one at a total cost of around $700 including the kit (Sanden compressor and clutch, adapter bracket, new receiver/drier, new compressor to condenser hose with pressure cut-off switch and a new section of suction hose), a can of aerosol condenser flush, a couple cans of refrigerant, and one new hose fitting. Prior to the tech session the car owner had his car checked and evacuated at a local garage of any remaining R-12. Then he mounted the new compressor, flushed the rear decklid and forward condensers, and installed the new compressor to condenser hose and wired up the cut-off switch. Instead of splicing in the short section of compressor suction hose provided by Griffiths we concluded there was enough hose in the existing suction line to cut off the old fitting and install a new bead lock o-ring fitting which we did a week before the tech session. At the tech session we pumped down his system and ensured it retained the vacuum against leaks using an electric vacuum pump and a R134a A/C harness/gage set. Then the system was pressurized to atmospheric pressure and the owner installed the new receiver/drier and the system was re-evacuated and again checked for leaks. After proving leak tight, it was pumped on for an hour (three hours may have been better but this is dry New Mexico and we had limited time at the tech session) with the car sitting in the sun to help the water bake out of the system and be further evacuated. Then 134a refrigerant was introduced and the system pressures monitored until an appropriate fill level for the ambient temperature (condenser inlet temperture) was reached. The car was then taken for a test drive and produced 33 degree F air temperature at moderate speeds (50 mph) although it wasn't too hot that afternoon (85F condenser inlet temperature while idling in driveway). We also did a less expensive R134a conversion of a '84 (?) Carrera with the Nippondenso compressor; this conversion cost around $150 (conversion fitting kit, ester oil, o-rings, refrigerant and new receiver/drier). This conversion parts and supplies cost can be reduced further through the use of aftermarket receiver/driers which are avalable for $30 or so.
Cheers, Jim

[shrouded]

Thoughtful reply there Jim... thanks.

I saw on the PCA region site that I missed the A/C checkout just a little too late; I was pretty annoyed that I missed it.

That info sounds good, & may turn out to be a blueprint for what I do later. Right now though, the A/C isn't a high enough priority to allocate money for a new compressor. If I have good odds of getting it blowing cool with hoses, Freeze 12, & some elbow grease I'll try it. If not, it will probably wait a while.

Just a bit off-topic, what can you tell me about the roadrunner PCA parade event coming up in Santa Fe? I spotted that on the roadrunner site as well, & was thinking about checking it out.

[Mike Kast]

If you take it out? My bet is you will never go back. And that would be a fine decision!

[Jim Sims]

I suspect your system is empty and at atmospheric pressure. First of all you have to get your system leak tight; if the compressor seals are what failed then it may not be worth it to spend the effort salvaging your compressor. For any refrigerant to work you are going to have evacuate your system and get the water out. If you elect to restore your system I strongly suggest you also install a new receiver/drier after you get your system leak tight. I believe you can get an aftermarket receiver/drier that fits, at AutoZone or NAPA, for between $20 and $30. I'm not a big fan of Freeze-12; if the seals in your York are good and are compatible with ester oil I'd recommend draining out the mineral oil and replacing it with A/C ester oil (also available at AutoZone) and then charging the system with R134a. We may have another 911 A/C tech session up here in the near future to do some more conversions.

Regarding the Fiesta del Porsche; if you register now ($100 per car) I believe the late fee of $25 is required. I'm not sure if the Sunday autocross ($25 per driver) is going to happen as there was some issue of the track being available but I think the rally is still on ($15 per participant). At a minimum it is fun to see all the Porsches parked in the Plaza. I'm still working most weekends on my project this month so I don't know if I'll make it down for any of the events.

Cheers, Jim

[dd74]

Shrouded:

That's just my suggestion. When I had the opportunity to take out my a/c, I did so immediately. I think, unless you have a good-sized engine like a 3.6, a/c on a 911 really taxes the engine.

Plus, if any of it is shot, it costs big $$$ to fix.

I'm of the lighter car/rolled-down window philosophy: 50-75 pounds out of an SC is a great start. That might put your car down to maybe 2500, which isn't bad. As well, I've heard N.M. summers can be quite brutal, not to mention the thin air at that altitude - neither of which can be good for an air-cooled engine that's trying to run itself, a car and a/c at the same time.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by mikez
Since it uses the old hard to get/expensive R-12, you would need to upgrade the compressor and hoses if you went to R-134 anyways......why bother capping them?

Expensive R12???????????????????????????

You mean you didn't stock up on Freon when it was on sale for 3 can for $.99 at Pep Boy???????????????? Wink Wink

How much will it cost to cap the line now versus replacing all the lines later?

I had a non a/c Porsche and currently a a/c Porsche, and even though I do not live in a desert, I find it much better to have an a/c Porsche. If you remove the a/c it may be a selling point to a potential buyer later on that the car is not a/c.

If I want to drive around in a hot car I'll take one of the Lotus.

[UTKarmann_Ghia]

I'm considering the same thing for my 911 Rob. I also have a York compressor and from that little window in the fender well, it's completely empty. I'd rather not spend over a couple hundred bucks right now (maybe later, maybe) for A/C, but if I could check for leaks and then maybe refill with R12 (from somewhere) I'd be willing to do that kindof work also. Since I've never done any A/C work, how could I check my system for leaks to begin with?

[juanbenae]

i took the compressor, condensor, and all the lines to the smugglers box. i did however leave the fan assembly in, it works decent and a least keeps air moving around when still or moving slowly.