Power from 3.2?
 

What sort of power is available from a 3.2?

What minor upgrades would members recommended: SSI's, exhaust, free flow filter, ignition? What sort of increase in power could be expected?

I got 245 RWHP (15% driveline loss) from

SSIs
Steve W chip
Monty single out

Everything else is stock except for a K&N in a drilled box. The car had 120K miles when I did this dyno run.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1063205562.jpg

There are a lot of threads on this.....I'll throw a few out there.

- Chip (Steve W....Nice gain for the $$)
- <b>Intake</b>:
-Bore out throttle body (small gain)
-Drill holes in Air box cover (nice sound, minimal gain if any)
-Hot wire MAF (nice upgrade, but expensive from Autothority.
Steve W may be able to advise on alternative source)
-Extrudehone intakes (expensive, small gain)

- <b>Exhaust</b>:
-SSIs (Costly, but decent gain)
-Fabspeed, Dansk, or Euro pre muff (Nice gain for the $$)
-Headers if you dont need the heat
-Many muff choices. For me the extra outlet on the passenger
side was a inexpensive modification which seems to yield a
nice gain



Am I going to put HP numbers to these? No....It depends on how you mix and match the items. Do you consider a different Cam a minor upgrade?

Depending upon what you are willing to spend you can probably get anywhere from stock to 300. Of course 300 would be really expensive.

You can go with SSI's, that's supposed to add about 15 hp. $800-1500 depending upon sources and new or used

You can go with a bored throttle body and a "hotwire" MAF. That may add anywhere from 5-15 depending upon what othermods you have. Hotwire is about $1500

You can change the cams, but if you do that you might as well do the rest to take the largest advantage of them.

You could go with carbs, that's really pricey.

If you do many of the other mods you could twin plug the heads, you could also go with the ROW high compression pistons to go with the twin plugging. That's even more expensive than carbs.

Realistically for a few thousand if you assume you are starting with a 217hp motor you could probably end up with between 235 and 250.

How about a list of what not to invest in.

- Miracle spark plugs
- Tornado intake inserts
- Electric Exhaust fan "Super chargers"
- Miracle gas or oil additives
- Mystery "Power Box" A/F gadget...(more on that later)
- Ignition upgrades ( I could be wrong here :) )

Any comments? ....lol

GeorgeM:
I think you "gaffed".... :)
I think you mean 245 "Crank" hp...applying a 15% transmission loss factor to the 205-208 RWHP you *actually* saw on the dyno.

BTW...who cares about "crank" hp? It's only for bragging rights. It's rear wheel hp that counts and translates into acceleration.

---Wil Ferch

Wil, the problem with rear wheel hp is measurement errors. Rearw heel dynos are notoriously unreliable. For a valid hp estimate you need to use an engine dyno.

True, but using rear wheel dyno figures to estimate (as GeorgeM did) the flywheel horsepower is even less reliable.
-Chris

So I did, thanks Will.

I got 210 RWHP and 190 ft. lbs. torque on an otherwise stock 87 Carrera with the following mods:

MAF (purchased through Pro-M racing - they make the base unit for Autothority): $900 including programmable tuner box (very nice feature)

Euro Pre Muffler (from Huntley Racing): $250

Chip: free - it came with the car.

Prior to the mods, my car dynoed at about 180 RWHP (which is right where it should be).

Before I spent a ton of moolah on hp upgrades on my 3.2 I deceided to take some time to do the basics and get it back to specs. At least, getting the ignition sorted out made a big difference in power, particularly in the bottom end.

The hardest part was the realization that the stock Beru cables which looked fine visually were actually junk, shorting out with the slightest amount of water which is what happens whenever it rains out here. New non Beru cables made all the difference in the world. No more studdering on take off, lots more low end torque.

As far as I am concerned, low end grunt is what a 3.2 needs most of all, it's what you can feel right away, puts a smile on your face everytime you get on the throttle. 3.2's have plenty on top end regardless how poorly out of tune the are, besides, top end performance is very subjective anyway, but there's no mistaking torque!

Cheers,

Joe

86 Carrera

My '85 Carrera got 203 hp at the rear wheels with:
Autothority Chip
Fabspeed cat pipe
B&B Dual out
K&N cone filter
Type R sticker

I think the latter gave me at least 10 hp

Rick, Ted,
I noticed both of you went with a single in, dual out.......is there a HP gain with a dual out vs. single? Also, how did you cut the valance?

I'm considering Steve's chip, the pre-muff and a new sport muffler but cannot decide what muffler to go with.

Thanks guys.

88 Club Sport, there was a post by Mike Jensen of Dansk USA about the hp differences between their single vs. dual out recently. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/124534-question-danskman-steve-w.html

Basically the differences was 6.8 hp for the single vs 6.9 hp for the dual out. The difference in noise between the two is that the single can be considered relatively quiet compared to to dual out which can sound pretty loud and deep like a V8. Mike mentioned he might try to see if he can obtain the dyno graphs from Dansk in Denmark, and send them to me. If so I'll post them up on my site.

"using rear wheel dyno figures to estimate ... the flywheel horsepower is even less reliable."

- Indeed so. All these things are OK if you only care about (or can only afford) a rough estimate -- say w/in 15-20%. But you have to be careful with this.

Steve,

Thanks for clarifying the differences in HP for the dual vs. single tip. I guess I expected more of a power difference, I assumed the dual out was less restrictive.

Sorry I have not got back to you on the CS chip.....I've been traveling quite a bit. I'll try to get back to you on it.

Craig

On the dyno numbers I have never heard anyone say a Dynojet Dynometer will be 15-20% off?? In any case, the best way to check the effectiveness of mods on your car is to do before and after dyno runs under as close to the same operating conditions as possible (temperature, air pressure, etc.). I have 2 heavily modified turbo cars and have spent a lot of time with some very high profile tuners and they all seem to think that the Dynojet is a very good diagnostic tool. Is it a mere coincidence that my 87 Carrera in stock form dynoed at about 181 RWHP (using a 15% drivetrain loss that gives you 213 crank HP - my manual says 214 is stock).

Well to throw my .02 into the ring, my '84 3.2 which lives in my '73E has the following:

SSI's
1st gen S.S. Borla sport muff w. single 3" out
custom mapped Autothority chip (wife works at p-car shop - knows Autothority boyz)
K&N Cone airfilter
splitfire plugs
Fyrebraid plug wires.

I've never dyno'd it...but I figure I can say I have 225 hp at the flywheel without getting laughed at too seriously.

John...... checked out your Pelican page, that's a good looking early car.

The pic of the 3.2 shows what looks like a rod attaching from the bolt of the fan housing going up to the top of the motor by the K & N. What is that ?

Craig

ZCAT3
On the dyno numbers I have never heard anyone say a Dynojet Dynometer will be 15-20% off??

Is true not that much but a 13% off, confirm by 6 others with different cars.:(