Is it possible...

dd74 · 09-10-2003, 09:47 PM

To drop the entire engine and water-cooling assembly, etc from a water-cooled 996 into an air-cooled 911?

BTW: I'm not asking for a verbal butt-spanking on this board for such a perverse thought. I'm just curious.

Adam · Adam's Garage

Didn't Dave at TRE mention that was on the cards for his next project car? I think he mentioned using 993 GT2 suspension, from a wrecked race car, too.

dd74 · 09-10-2003, 10:05 PM

Hmmm...haven't heard a word about it.

That must be going on in his secret "skunkworks" room in the back of the shop.

I know nothing about watercooled 911s, but I saw one on the freeway hauling serious butt, and thought a lighter weight car (like an SC or something), might benefit nicely from a set up like that.

What do you think? I mean, at some time the world is going to run out of 3.6s.

Adam · Adam's Garage

I think a DOHC, 24-valve, water-cooled 3.4 (or later 3.6) would be a good upgrade to a 911, despite all the extra work of installing the radiators etc.

I mean, they're 320bhp now, right? They haul butt, powering the heavy 996, so bolting one into the rear of a middle-year car (for example - relatively cheap donor), would make an impressive road car!

dd74 · 09-11-2003, 12:01 AM

Hmmm...I hate getting thoughts like this.

beepbeep · 05:16 AM

Being involved in one watercooled-conversion right now, i find myself somewhat fit to answer....

I think it would be pretty tight fit beacuse of it's boxter-design. I don't know much about 996 engine mounts, but it's much easier to drop-in I4 or SB V8 beacuse it's narrower and often shorter, so you still have space to fabric some sort of adapter without cutting up chassis.

996 is DOHC design so it probably has some additional stuff over the heads, so you might run into clearance-issues in worst case.

Does anyone have drawings of either 996 body or engine? It would help determine if it fits or not.

Of course, then you get into cooling-problematics but it's the same for all watercooler-conversions.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

Do a search on the archives for this I think it was attempted but they ran into fairly major problems and it wasn't reasonably feasible at least at the present time.

tchanson · 09-11-2003, 09:24 AM

Kelly Moss has done a GT3-R engined 993, and its some beautiful fabrication work. Quite quick also, or perhaps too quick, as proposed PCA Club Racing rules changes for 2004 would ban newly constructed cars like this (996 based engines in earlier 911 chassis) in the future and force existing ones like this KM car to run in GTP. Ouch.

A pure race application is one thing, where there are far fewer compromises, but I can't imagine that the additional complexities of such a conversion for even a marginally streetable car would be remotely cost effective in relation to the potential HP gained. Cool idea/challenge, however, for the sake of the challenge itself, if nothing else.

Tim

john walker's workshop · 09-11-2003, 10:23 AM

water, eegads!

dd74 · 09-11-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
water, eegads!

C'mon John, don't you think Tyson and I can handle it? I'm just waiting for one of these L.A. actor-lawyer-frigid-housewife types to crack up their 996, then I'll make the move - vulture-like.

sammyg2 · 09-11-2003, 11:01 AM

I've heard that the 996 based engine was too wide to fit in the rear without major surgery. Maybe an urban myth.

Tyson Schmidt · 09-11-2003, 11:10 AM

The best thing about the 996 is the chassis and suspension. The worst thing about it is the engine.

Seems like a bass ackwards way of going about things to me.

A 996 is a relative lightweight by todays standards. It's not much heavier than a new mini-cooper. It'd make a lot more sense to find a theft recovery 996 and trim it down to 2400 pounds or less. Then you've got a far superior chassis and the same weight, with a lot less headache and cash outlay.