210 degrees

[47silver]

hi
new plugs, timed, adjusted valves, removed alternator and cleaned the engine, cleaned the oil tank, fan belt perfect, changed the oil. car runs great but gets to 210 degrees not matter what the ambient temp 85+ to 60 and stays there no matter what. no external oil cooler. will put one in this winter but wonder if we should replace the engine mounted thermostat as well? can i get to it (cis) system without dropping the motor and if i do a partial drop even what else should i replace while in there?

thanks

gary

[masraum]

210 is totally fine!

[bigchillcar]

Ditto. Nothing unusual about it. I don't believe it's starting to get on the 'warmer' side until > 230. My '74 operates at the se temp all day. 90,000 original miles and I see 270 about once or twice a summer...at that point I'm looking for a place to park it awhile. But it will often see 240-250 on 100 degree ambient days.
Ryan

[47silver]

thanks a million i was thinking that i might have a problem.

gary

[Noel]

Gary,

Adding a wing will also help it run cooler. I noticed this when I removed mine for the Pittsburgh VGP car shows and it ran hotter than normal for the weeks it was off. I think it has to do with the low vs. high pressure area created and it has a direct effect on the volume of cool air that gets injested into the engine.

BTW, I'm in the South Hills, where are you in Pittsburgh?

Noel

[IROC]

Like the others have said, 210 isn't really all that bad. The only reason I would investigate further is if it never used to run that hot. The 2.7 that used to be in my car never got over 195 on the street, so if I did the things you did and it ran at 210, I'd wonder what was going on.

Mike

[Chuck Moreland]

180 to 210 is perfect!

[kzm]

one option is to put a euro fuel distributer on (runs not so lean and better performance), dump the heat exchangers for a set of 1974 exchangers and put on 11 blade fan. heat will hurt the engine seals over time especially if it gets above 250 degrees. i had a 77 911 and made those changes and it ran great and cool. porsche was in a real learning curve on emission controls in those days and made some mistakes in their approach. however, what others have said about expected engine temps for that year ring ture. that's my two cents. sure is proof that I don't have enough to do these days if i'm doing this stuff.

[bigchillcar]

Kurt,
I wasn't aware there was a distinct 'euro' fuel distributor for the 2.7? What do you think about the use of an SC fuel distributor and WUR? Steve Weiner at Rennsport mentioned it as an alternative, especially for those planning on increasing compression to prevent too much leanness.
Ryan

[masraum]

Engine heat, a natural result of internal combustion, takes its toll on your motor oil. In the presence of air, oil undergoes a process called oxidation, which becomes more severe as the temperature increases. Oxidation thickens the oil and produces corrosive acids. Left unchecked, your oil would degrade into a tar-like mess.

While you want your engine temperature above 210ºF to evaporate unwanted contaminants, above 250ºF the oil is more prone to oxidation. At temperatures of 300ºF, this process occurs rapidly.

Pennzoil Technical Information bulletin G-10-A

[bigchillcar]

Good one, Steve.
Ryan

[kzm]

I've heard of folks using an SC fuel distributer on 2.7's to obtain a more conventional fuel mix and better acceleration but, have no imperical data to verify that for you. as it's made for a 3 liter motor it's possible there may be issues or, perhaps it can be leaned for 2.7 through simple adjustments. the euro 2.7 fuel distributer i installed on my 77'S made a lot of positive difference and not hard to see why. in europe, the emissions restrictions had not yet caught up to US standards and the factory was able to have a free hand to make the engine behave in an optimal manner. I also increased the throttle body size (via machine shop or SC throttle body) and experienced a lot more throttle response which is somewhat absent on 2.7S's. Hope that helps.

[bigchillcar]

Kurt,
Very interesting...where did you manage to find the euro fuel distributor? Since you have a '77, I assume therefore that you have the 'S' cams and a larger intake manifold, airbox than i have on my 8:1 compression 2.7...that must work better for your application than my more restricted setup. Is there a 'euro WUR' as well?
Ryan

[kzm]

not sure what WUR is (sounds like a factory document)? you can get euro fuel distributers from Troutman 800 356-9307 or other sources. it will work as well on a non-S 2.7 as well. placing tuned SSI's will also help with performance. also, they make heat excangers that look like the factory ones but don't have the internal heat generating restrictions. the 11 blade fan is your best move for price/performance (heat reduction). I used to have a 2.7S but now have a 71 Targa with 2.7RS motor and a 69 911 with 3.5RSR motor. please allow my 69 car to take a bow. good luck.

[bigchillcar]

Suhhhhhhhhhhweet car, Kurt! Encore!

WUR is the 'warm up regulator', responsible for maintaining system and control pressure after start in a CIS motor, located just left of the throttle linkages in the back. As these regulate fuel pressure after the engine starts running, they can cause lots of performance and driveability issues if not working properly.

I've got the 11-blade fan...honestly, I've never even seen the 5-bladed. And I've already got the desireable, much less restricted exhaust that came on my and all '74's. Thanks for the number to Troutman. I'm not familiar, but will try a search for a website.
Ryan

[47silver]

we have the later style carrerra type of heat exhangers and 11 blade fan, and just wonder if something is wrong with the engine mounted thermostat. the weather is getting cooller and if it runs at 210 all of th teim then i think that something may be wrong with the thermostat? wahat kind of parts are in a thermostat, besides the spring is therer any nylone or plastic?

[UTKarmann_Ghia]

After fixing my heat problem, I run 210-220 and so far nothing higher than that. I know my internal tstat is opening at ~180 (since I tested the darn thing) and the ext is brand new and opens just over 200 (from what I can tell). 210 degrees is "in the zone"

[kzm]

if your engine's thermostat was real bad i'd expect you would be running way past the 260 degree range due to NO oil going to the cooler. if the thermostat is marginal (gunk in the way of something), you may have an issue there that could explain the temperatures but, do you know your temp sending unit is good and/or the guage ? i've never seen a thermostat in an oil cooled car like a 911 go south but that don't mean it can't happen. water cooled cars are famous for thermostat failures but not oil cooled ones because there is nothing but no corosive lubricant in the stream as opposed to corosive water. like the other folks have pointed out, under most conditions 210 ain't nothing to worry about. if it's 210 and only 50 degrees out, then you may have an issue. i'd consider waiting for your external cooler before going any further. you've done most every thing indicated. here's some of the common reasons for high temps occur
lean fuel mix
retarded ignition
blocked exhaust
blocked cooling (your theory)
low oil presure
a factory equiped 75-77 911


lastly, make sure the oil cooler is not having it's air blocked like anything from lubrication stickers to tumble weeds. see if you can view it from through the fan with a flash light. if your only 210 don't lose too much sleep. hope someone else can give you more info.

[47silver]

thanks all

the only thing that i did not check is the mixture, i do not have a gunnson or a maehtod of checking although i could check the plugs.

next item i guess.