It's not Porsche's fault

Rick Cabell · 09-26-2003, 12:35 PM

From time to time, you hear people upset after the absence of Porsche in the top class of endurance racing for the last several years.
It was concidered the fact that Porsche had put all there loose cash into the development to the new SUV and abandoned the top racing classes that they had dominated for so many years.
I believe I have gotten to the bottom of the real story.
I just returned from Germany last night and had spent some quality time with former Porsche Werks driver and racer Willi Kauhsen.(Willi was the main test driver for the development of the 917).
Also, yesterday morning I spent with Erwin Kremer. ( the only team to ever have 30 consectutive starts at Lemans!!).
The deal is that Porsche is sick of the horse and pony shows. Every time they spend the money to develope a winning car, the rules get changed so to put them out of the running.
This has happened several times over the years. The 917 is a good example.
Erwin told a story about the 1995 24 hours of Daytona.
Eight days before the cars were to show up at Daytona, there was a rules change. Porsche said fine, we will stay home.
The Kremer cars were already on the boat to the U.S. It was to late to turn around. They got to Daytona and were pretty fast in practice. During tech inspection they picked the Kremer car a part! This is wrong, that's to short, that's to long, on and on.
Erwin said, OK, we are here, we will fix everthing you have pointed out before qualifing.
In qualifing, they posted a 17th fastest time. The officials were pleased, with the Porsche Kremers starting position!!
To end the story.........The Kremer car WON THE RACE!! The photos and trophy sit in there main show room.
When the rules are cast in stone for a minimumof 5 years without any last minute changes, then the Porsche Werks teams will be back in world class racing at the top. Untill then, they will support the private teams. hats off to Kevin Buckler this year!

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

Interesting and it sounds very plausible.

speeder · 09-26-2003, 01:07 PM

No, no! It has to be the evil 996! I mean the Cayenne! Just last week someone in a Boxster wouldn't smile at me!

With Porsche you are always dealing in legends, and you, sir, are messing w/ a pretty substantial internet legend right there! Nice detective work actually, Rick.

l8tapex · 09-26-2003, 02:18 PM

IMHO, Porsche has been out of the top classes for 5 full years and that is if far far too long. It diminishes the brand not to be active in motorsport. Waiting for rules stability is a nice thing but it's sorta like waiting for real tax relief from Washington. I love the GT3RS and all it's done but Porsche should step up to GTS and play against it's natural competators in Corvette, Ferrari, and Ford. No excuses.

rickeolis · 09-26-2003, 02:40 PM

I agree, when Mercedes ran that 12 cylinder in CART\Indy that came in #1, 2, and 4 in the Indy that year, CART outlawed the car...

I thought racing was a way to improve technology, not play politics- (I know- $$$ is politics dammit)

Does anyone know why Porsche isn't showing in F1 racing (I sure don't)?
Maybe it's because Ferrari has those girls on that other post; and there is no way to compete with that!

Tspringer · 09-26-2003, 03:14 PM

The Porsche company I was seduced by built the worlds best sportscars through developing and utilizing the worlds best performance engineering. They proved this fact every year at the top levels of International sportscar racing. That company is dead and gone....

The new company builds SUVs, psydo-sportscars with automatic transmissions and engines that void the warranty if driven on the track and spouts off more about profit ratios and market share than about engineering excellence. Its not about being the best. Its not about winning. Its about money.

I used to be a hardcore Porsche only guy. Now Im into Ferrari as well in a big way. I would never purchase any of todays Porsche offerings (though the GT2, Carrera GT and GT3 are all fantastic cars) because I dont support the companies modern vision.

Also...... Ive heard the above arguement before. Ive also heard the arguement that the company could not survive without the pepperwagon or the other corporate driven changes. I dont buy it. Its accountant driven marketing speak for WE WANT MORE MONEY AND RACING DOESNT PAY. Well.... maybe it doesnt but this is one car fanatic who no longers views Porsche in the same light.

l8tapex · 09-26-2003, 04:04 PM

One thing we all have to remember about Porsche is that they are a tiny company compared to all the other players. Last year they only sold 65k cars TOTAL. This doesn't allow for the kind of money it takes to fund an F1 program. Personally, I'd love to see Porsche at the top step of the F1 or LMP900 podium but I would PREFER to see them winning in GTS where they can race the cars closest to the street product. My ideal would be to see Porsche get serious about racing the Carrera GT.

pwd72s · 09-26-2003, 04:22 PM

A cut n' paste of my response on the S registry board:
Good story, and it has the ring of truth. I remember the Indy car fiasco. Danny "On The Gas" was getting to close to setting lap records with the engine, while using an older chassis. So, "They changed the rules"...making the developed engine obsolete after who knows how much spent in the development process. Some race series are indeed a "good old boys club"...and they don't like newcomers upsetting the apple cart. Hmmmm, maybe Mercedes should consider entering NASCAR?

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Tspringer · 09-26-2003, 05:15 PM

l8t....

Ferrari is small as well and sells far fewer cars than Porsche. True they are owned by Fiat..... but look at Fiats balance sheet and P/L numbers. Fiat is not exactly a "bonus" for Ferrari...

Also, # of units solds is far less important than profit. Porsche is among the most profitable car companies on the planet. They have the money to go racing. They would just rather spend it on making more money than on pursueing engineering excellence and winning races. The sad thing is they have forgotten that it was that engineering and winning that made the company great in the first place. I predict it will catch up with them.

Terry

l8tapex · 09-27-2003, 01:56 AM

Hi Tspringer, even if Porsche had unlimited funds and manpower I'd rather see them race the cars I see on the street than Prototypes. And I'd rather see them race against their natural sportscar rivals than deep pocket sedan and SUV makers like Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, etc. I don't think it does Porsche any good to beat the Audi R8 but it does alot of good to beat the Vette, Viper, and 550M.

l8tapex · 09-27-2003, 01:58 AM

Terry, one other thought. Today you have to drop $100-200million to be near the top of F1 or even ALMS LMP900. That implies that you need BOTH a large number of units sold and a healthy profit. But I know what you are saying.

lateapex911 · 09-27-2003, 03:29 AM

Regarding the Indy Mercedes deal, unless I am thinking of the wrong situation, I understood that Penske spotted a loophole in the rules that defined acceptable car/engine combinations at Indy. It wasn't a CART series rule, but a Speedway rule, and he talked Mercedes into 'buying' the program, which was done in a super short time period, and under top secrecy. He knew going in that he had found the golden egg, and that as soon as the rulemakers saw the error of their ways, the gig would be up. But in racing, you grab the advantage before your competitor. He did, Mercedes paid, he won.

Ferrari isn't a private company, and their situation allows two way benefits with Fiat. I really don't think that Porsche could invest in 6 years of F1 budgets without serious underwriting. AKA, sponsor dollars. Which are getting tougher to come by now that tobacco advertissing is being so tightly regulated. And they would get creamed. Who wants to see that?

I know that there was considerable acrimony when the BMW/Porsche thing went down in sedan racing a few years back. BMW was given permission to run V8 M3s as though they were production cars! Porsche flipped. Which they had a right to, sorta. They have certainly pulled the old "production prototype" sham themselves, and never produced. But BMW was flagrant about it.

Life isn't fair. And auto racing is a powerful condensed version of life. Porsche should suck it up, take their occasional lumps, and get on with it. Their image isn't at the bottm of the ocean yet, but the waters are rising.

l8tapex · 09-27-2003, 05:56 AM

Well said. But the BMW GTR V8 was an over reaction to Porsche's GT3RS. It wasn't the right thing for BMW to do and in my opinion it tarnished their image a bit. But on the other hand Porsche did the same in the mid-90s with the Daur 962LM. Remember that...ahem...GT entry :-) Another example is the early entry of the GT1-96 into the 1996 BPR series which was also questionable. I like the current situation with stable rules and generally fair competition. GM has shown alot of backbone. I just hope they stay around if the Ferrari's continue to beat them.