Bye robingb! Sure will miss you! BTW, I hate to admit it but I was actually considering your car until your 'tude was revealed to the forum.

Thats not head swelling . ..


. . ..It's a HAT! :rolleyes:



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1065674700.gif

Ahh, the power of cheeeeese.

. . .oh, and that's not me either :cool:

WOW! I had an idea when I posted this topic it would get hot, but I had no idea it would get this heated...Better than day time TV! What a slug fest...For the record I hate the black trim too! Other than that stick a duck tail and some red Carrera stripes on it and call it a day.

There's an old saying in the buying & selling of cars: "you're not just buying the car but the owner as well".

Maybe enough said. Or are we going to go for a sixth page?

Wow the price is dropping on ebay. Now at 28K for buy it now and the reserve is at 26.5 getting closer to reality...

ah. why not - lets go to page 6! I wanna see if you guys can get robingb to come back and make another appearance! classic. LOL

nice car, just a shame some people take criticism of their cars so personally (although makes great reading). I guess we must all be part of the robingb 80%!

"can't we all just get along"

--Rodney King

Makes me REALLY glad that I do not have an early car or a modded one in any way.

WAIT! I forgot, I have a license plate frame that is black.

Lets go for 6th page!

I don't know why people are downing the cars looks, yes crome is cool and I would change that but this is a very sharp car.

Hell, I like the car. It's the nerdy little keyboard pecker that I'm finding amusing.

I like how people get all flustered and claim they're leaving the board. I *guarantee* you he reads the rest of this thread. Any little comment is getting under his skin, so he can't resist. He might not have the stones to post anymore, but he's reading, trust me.

Some comparisions........
brian
fullerton, ca

Price:
E-Mail: brian@nodents.com
Web Site:



Description
1972 911, 3.2L (230hp),headers and slight mods. 915 factory lsd. Fuchs 17X8's& 9's. RSR struts, Slightly flaired, ducktail or 3.8 rsr tail/wing section with crawford element. Carrera brakes, bushings, bars, torsions, mounts, cage, reinforced tub, rs door panels, h4's, and much more. $60k invested, will sell for half of investment. Glacier white, int/ext.

again...asking price. What did it sell for? Or is it still for sale? And a white interior? Yuck (personal opinion).

Seems to me the market is speaking...no sale at $30K for the blacked out car.

We've had these discussions before. The usual story is that owners have too much of their heart/ego/money tied up in the car and have an inflated value of its worth. Then some take umbrage when people point out the high pricing. Some owners go as far as to sign up on the bbs just the piss and moan in person.

I think most everyone agrees that the black car is very nice. Most also agree that some of the mods are not their cup of tea. As such, people think it is overpriced *in their opinion*. Why is it that some of you guys are so hell bent on proving that the car is worth big bucks? Because you're in the same position, being upside down on your own car and feel the need to justify its worth?

My car is pretty much bone stock and unmolested. And low miles. And a desireable color. And I'm upside down on it. Big deal. I didn't buy it to sell...I bought it to drive. I don't really care what anyone thinks it's worth...

Re: thanks Gary for jumping in...
 

Heeeeyyyy!!!!

I thought my post about polishing my rims was pretty insightful and useful!

Dork? Dork? Sheatt Alaska boy, you better be able to do better than that.

Seek life elsewhere. On second thought, stay put and prepare to pleasure yourself for the very long upcoming winter ahead.

PS, this was entertaining. Anyone buy the car yet?

Robin,

To make a statement on Ebay making reference to Pelican as a stupid site just shows a 6th grade mentality. Making judgements like you have based simply on a thread regarding your "most perfect 911 on the planet" is pretty childish. You could have taken an adult approach to this situation and maybe even could have sold your car to a Pelican enthusiast at a more than fair price. You could have taken a little time and actually participated in this forum and found that it is the most helpful and informative Porsche related site around.... with a community approach. But you didnt.

Your contribution to this board will not be missed.

C YaSmileWavy

quoted from above....."you guys are so hell bent on proving that the car is worth big bucks??"

I'll tell you what......you go and get your car professionally( key word here....not a macco special) stripped and repainted and you will quickly see the value in Gary's car. With the average driver going for 6000-15,000, a selling price for GARY'S car in the $28-34k range is easy to justify. Frankly I would be surprized if Jim Torres would even load his paint gun for that amount.

Simple truth is that people get what they pay for. Professional work isn't cheap at near 100 bucks an hour in many parts of the country. Like the old saying goes....there is a butt for every seat.

Good luck to Gary....you're buyer is out there!

6 page anyone?

have to agree with RPMClassic...

I guess I have an advantage over a lot of other amateur pundits here, in that I've seen this car.

If it were on the market for $25K, I'd find the money in a heartbeat. The paint and body work on the car is literally stunning.

And although I don't know Jim Torres, I know his reputation, and I also know what it costs to paint a car black and have it come out nice -- let alone stunning.

Like nearly everything else mechanical or electronic, there's a logarithmic scale of pricing as you approach perfection.

(and just to put it in perspective, you can buy a very nice set of 'bright aluminum trim' [it's not chrome] for this car for about $600.

techweenie
, do you have a website?

hhmmm, the 'S' in Porsche on the decklid is crooked :rolleyes:

I'll pass. :D

Sorry, but I wouldn't spend the money on a super haika paint job, becuase I'm going to DRIVE my car, not take pictures of it and have it sit in the garage.

Different strokes. If you look at my earlier posts, I actually said that if someone really liked the car, it was indeed worth $30K. The problem is not the car, it is the personal attacks from the owner. People dared to voice their opinion that the car wasn't worth it, and he posts crap not only here, but on his Ebay ad.

The bottom line is that as far as I can tell, money spent on mods and restoration is never gotten back out. I know there is a difference between a $1K, $5K, and $15K paint job. The problem is when you go to sell, the price differential that went in is NOT reflected in what comes out. Unless you find that one special buyer that just "has to have it." Maybe he will...but judging from the time on market, the search will take awhile.

Buy it Now has been dropped to $26,501. I think it's time for the senior pundit to put his money where his mouth is. What's another $1501 if you would buy it in a heartbeat at $25K?

LOL!

Can we just consider that a campaign promise?

;-)

When/if 'Buy it Now' hits $25K I will go drive the car with cash in had -- but to complete the deal, I'll have to wait until the California registration tax increase is "un-tripled".

[edit: I just looked at the description, and the guy's quoting me from an earlier Pelican thread on his car. I guess the description has no credibility, though since I'm '80% idiot']

;-) Rather than wait for the increase to be "terminated", just tell the DMV you bought it for $8K - that will "un-triple" it. They will believe you, the car is over 30 years old.

actually, I don't think he can legally use people's comments in a commerce situation (ie his eBay ad) without a release. No to mention the libelous comment about Wayne's site.

I smell litigation...

quoted from above....."you guys are so hell bent on proving that the car is worth big bucks??"

I'll tell you what......you go and get your car professionally( key word here....not a macco special) stripped and repainted and you will quickly see the value in Gary's car. With the average driver going for 6000-15,000, a selling price for GARY'S car in the $28-34k range is easy to justify. Frankly I would be surprized if Jim Torres would even load his paint gun for that amount.

Simple truth is that people get what they pay for. Professional work isn't cheap at near 100 bucks an hour in many parts of the country. Like the old saying goes....there is a butt for every seat.

Good luck to Gary....you're buyer is out there!

This is sort of the heart of the matter really. Yes, the paint is perfect. Yes, it would cost (apparently) $20k to get someone to do that. The number of people willing to get a $20k paint job in the first place is very small. The number of people willing to pay even half that as an implied premium in a restored car is even smaller. The fact that you could get a paint job of 95% of the quality for half the price is really important.

So yeah, we all agree basically. The car is worth up to $30k for the right buyer (whereever they are). Otherwise, it is worth somewhere around $20-25k. So sad.

As a side note, I will arrange to ship anyone who wishes for a US$20k paint job to have their car shipped down to New Zealand, where the most expensive and highest skilled body shop in the land is well under US$50/hour.

US$50/hour??????????????????

Really?

Well, depends on the exchange rate. Basically, the top rate is probably NZ$65/hour + tax (12.5%). I get my 911 repaired for between NZ$50 and NZ$65/hour.

But then again, I earn those same NZ$.

USD/NZD is currently US$0.59. Thus NZ$65+12.5% tax (which you might get back if you exported the car afterwards) is US$40 (maybe plus 12.5%).

It is because average wages here are so much lower (so is housing and to some extent food). While what I've spent on my cars is pretty reasonable in US$, it is horrible in NZ$.

(edit, a year ago the exchange rate was US$0.40 to NZ$1. My Porsche mechanic (who has been doing it for 20 years) was charging me the equivalent of US$20/hour. A shame I still earned NZ$!).

if one were to send a car down there how would you be able to verify quality of work and that you would get the car back?

In all seriousness, I know of at least one firm which looks for work in the US (and Europe, I think) on the basis that the NZ$ can make it attractive. They are a panel shop only - they outsource the painting.

http://www.car-restoration.com/

I actually don't know what the labour rate is. The guy who runs it is a decent bloke though.

If you are actually seriously considering it, I would ask for contact details of people who have had work done by them (or anyone else you investigated).

The main negative is that the car has to be shipped to and from NZ, probably at around US$1000 each way (and it takes 4-5 weeks).

...plus you would be sending your car to the other (dark) side of the world, and a return from this place is a lottery at best...

Just kidding. There's some really decent work coming out of here. Check out the the Beacham Jaguar site for example.

In all seriousness, this is a very nice car that deserves a good home. I would buy this car in a second if I weren't looking for a soft window targa, but there are two rules of thumb. There are the people like me that buy original cars and pay the price and then there are the smart people that buy cars like this and drive them because they aren't totally original, but are the best drivers you can find.

It is so hard to determine value when you get into the early "S" market and part of the problem is that so many of them have been modified. Some of the modifications (as in this car) are tastefully made and can easily be put back to original. Many of the early cars have been modified so much that the cost would be prohibitive to bring them back to where they are still original (proper fenders, interiors, engines, etc.).

If he lowers it much more and the market gets a little lower, I will buy this car. If only it had a 915 transmission... LOL.

All The Best,

Marc

"The most expensive Porsche you can buy is a cheap one" that was one of the phrases I was weary of when shopping around. Most of the time, I love the tinkering that comes with these cars. Some is easier, some is much worse than you imagined, but it will all cost you.

This is the kind of car that makes me wish I had cash to spare. If the price is between $25 to $30k think of the cost of buying a $15k solid example and stripping it to bare metal, glass-out, cleaning/prepping/painting. Then, putting everything mechanically perfect back into it. Even if you did all that work yourself, the time involved would still translate into that kind of a premium.

If you love the car, get it. Forget about the chrome. And if not, replacing most of it is easy. If not, I'm sure someone out there (besides me) likes black trim and would swap with you. My early car has black headlight rings, which most pelicanites think is blasphemy. Or at least not period-correct. What's important is whether YOU like the car. Depending on the depth of the resto, ie: wheel bearings, steering rack, all the hoses and hydraulics, it may be a deal at $25k. There may be quicker, nice cars out there, but I don't think they will be this flawless.

Good luck with the decison.

I can't believe that I somehow missed this thread until now, it has everything that I look for: valuation opinions, mudslinging and name calling, ebay, Island 911, and last but not least, a really beautiful, (if slightly strange), early car!

The work done on this ride does look beyond reproach, and I believe the owner when he says that no expense was spared, but WTF did he make a super valuable early "S" look like a 911SC?? With what looks like a Pep Boys door mirror? :confused:

Oh well. I think that I have met Jim Torres, is he Burbank Coachworks? If so, he bought some parts from my wrecked 1970 911E ~14 years ago. I went to his shop, he truly does Pebble Beach quality work, he was restoring a '73 911S coupe, Gemini Blue w/ sunroof if memory serves, and it was similar to the recent Gunnar Racing resto of the '73 RS. Basically re-manufactured. Mind-blowing quality and expense, way too nice to drive much. :eek:

I would say that the car in this thread will set the bar, pricewise, for a non-original/modified early car, and it should. As for the seller, a Porsche owner who is a prick?? What is the world coming to! :D

page 7?

This discussion has been a hoot. Personally I like the car. Like anyone else I'd change this or that, but basically it is tastefully done. On the flip side, I'd probably walk away from it even if I was in the market because the owner seems like he's wound a little too tight. We'll see what it goes for - supply/demand etc.

What gets me is, why go to the expense of such an extensive "restoration" only to turn around to sell? Wouldn't you want to keep something so personal and nice?

For the record the Driver side mirror is a factory part and correct. Ran one on my RS Replica for years. Comes as polished aluminum.

Now if it wasn't black and I didn't have a project car already - this would be a sweet purchase at $25K. But the seller is a bit too little boy petulant for me to stomach handing over the cash.

Chris

QUOTE FROM ABOVE..."it may be a deal at $25k. "???

Someone pleeeeeeeeeease enlighten me! How is this car not a deal at 25k?? How on earth( and in our solar system...) can an early 911 be PROFESSIOALLY restored for less money??

Lets recap shall we:

starter original car - 10k ( if you're lucky)
refinshed fuchs - 1000
pr of sport seats - 3000
door panels/carpet etc - 1500
strip,rust repair,paint - 5000-25000
suspension - 2000
tranny rebuild - 1500
brake overhaul - 1200
engine top end and reseal 5000-6000

I don't think this was a top end rebuild, just a cosmetic makeover (and a nice one at that) of the engine. But otherwise your cost justification seems on the "money".

Chris

techweenie - did you see that the reserve is now $24,500? Time to add it to your collection!