Shop etiquette - who owns the PPI?

LeeH · 10-03-2003, 08:50 PM

Mr. Seller has decided to get rid of his bloved Porsche. Mr. Buyer calls and wants a PPI done at his expense. The PPI is OK, but Mr. Buyer decides to pass for other reasons.

Obviously Mr. Buyer paid for the PPI and theoretically owns it, but should he give all the info to Mr. Seller just to be nice?

If he doesn't and Mr. Seriousbuyer calls about the car, should the shop charge the full price for another PPI that it has already done? Would the shop likely share the results of the first PPI with Mr. Seller?

Thoughts?

coolbreeze · coolbreeze's Garage

give the info up for good karma if nothing else. talk to the wrench, maybe you get a break on PPI No. 2?

i say this because i got sloppy seconds on someone elses dime with my PPI. you be hard, your next deal just might be......

Elfer · 10-03-2003, 10:32 PM

Let me add a question to the post. Let's say that Mr. Seller indicates that the asking price is negotiable. Mr. Buyer is serious, but would like to do some negotiating. Would the offer come before the PPI, or after? I would imagine after because the PPI might uncover minor details that are potentially bargaining tools.
But wouldnt the seller be hesitant to do a PPI without an offer on the table?

SpeedracerIndy · 10-03-2003, 11:37 PM

Very good post!!!! The PO of my car agreed to the PPI before I made an offer. That was one of the reasons that I went for the car. It just shows there is nothing to hide. He even drove the car to the place and picked it up after the PPI. This was after i had looked at the car only once. If I had not bought the car based on the PPI I deffinately would have given him the report. What do you have to loose since you already spent the money.

On the other hand, if the potential buyer did not offer the PPI, what are your options? Can you pay for the report from the mechanic? That would save a lot of time and give you more bargaining power when selling. I guess as long as you have nothing to hide, there is nothing to worry about in the first place.

GeorgeM · GeorgeM's Garage

An offer should not be expected before the PPI. I never hinted at an offer or even told the PO I would make him an offer before the PPI.

If the potential buyer backed out post PPI, regardless of the reason, I think it's general courtesy to provide the PO with the report. What's the buyer going to do with the report if he doesn't buy the car?

If I were selling, I would show that report to any other potential buyers. If they wanted to pay for their own PPI, that's up to them.

AFJuvat · 10-04-2003, 06:05 AM

I would give it to the seller - provcided he was not a total jerk.

AFJuvat

TSNAPCRACKLEPOP · TSNAPCRACKLEPOP's Garage

why would you even offer the car for sale, someone might buy it, taking you seriously.

RF951 · RF951's Garage

I think you buy access to the information but the shop that did the inspection owns the information. They can choose to give it or sell it to anyone they want too. If I pay for a PPI and don't buy the car I would send the seller to the shop if he wants the report.

Also, I have always negotiated deals before the PPI based on all reports coming in clean and the car being as described. If the report shows a problem it becomes part of the adjustment to the first deal. Or the deal dies.

keithlambert7 · 10-04-2003, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RF951
I think you buy access to the information but the shop that did the inspection owns the information. They can choose to give it or sell it to anyone they want too. If I pay for a PPI and don't buy the car I would send the seller to the shop if he wants the report.

Also, I have always negotiated deals before the PPI based on all reports coming in clean and the car being as described. If the report shows a problem it becomes part of the adjustment to the first deal. Or the deal dies.

As Bob said, I'd also refer the seller to the shop where the PPI was done.

And again as Bob said, negotiate before having the PPI done. tho I must admit that sellers frequently get pissed at this order of things as they expect you to have the PPI done and use it to squeeze them mercilessly.

I have only had one case with the many cars I've purchased that my own eye was not 'pretty close', where the PPI swayed me away from the car. It was a '87 Turbo and a compression test told all. The seller claimed to have had no idea...

Keith

85Gold · 10-04-2003, 07:08 AM

I look at a PPI as the equivalent of a marine survey. I make the offer subject to a satisfactory PPI in which it is my SOLE discretion if it is acceptable to me. If their are issues found duing the PPI then they are negotiated or the buyer walks.

Peter

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Aside from the obvious reason of "being a dick" why wouldn't a prospective buyer give the PPI results to the seller? An argument I have heard is "Well, I paid for it, not him." Well so what? What good are PPI results of a car you didn't buy? You going to hang it on the wall?

Acting like a big dick won't make a tiny penis grow.

Tom

on edit: I missed this part:

Quote:

If he doesn't and Mr. Seriousbuyer calls about the car, should the shop charge the full price for another PPI that it has already done? Would the shop likely share the results of the first PPI with Mr. Seller?

It depends. Does the shop want to make a good impression and develop a relationship with a potential future customer, or squeeze every job for as much money as possible?

LeeH · 10-04-2003, 10:55 AM

My situation is that I found a car for sale where a PPI was done, but the buyer offered to SELL the info the the seller after passing on the car because shipping costs were too high.

The seller is going to contact the shop and see if they'll give us a copy of the report. I just didn't know what was usual and customary.

dad911 · 10-04-2003, 12:56 PM

Sounds fishy to me. I wouldn't trust a PPI supplied by seller, or arranged at seller's shop. And my gut feeling is that first buyer wouldn't shell out good money for PPI not to complete the sale, unless something was wrong. First buyer probably wants money because they feel misled or wronged about spending money on PPI.

Lothar · Lothar's Garage

Here's an idea. If a buyer askes for a PPI, he obviously will also want you to take the car off the market until the PPI is complete. The seller could ask for a deposit in the amount of the PPI specifically for that purpose and not to be applied to the sale price. The deposit should be non-refundable.

However, in return the seller agrees to pay for the PPI. The seller now owns the PPI and can share the results as he sees fit. If the buyer buys the car, he has paid for the PPI and was assured that the car would not be sold out from under him without a first right of refusal. If he passes, he has still paid for the PPI and the seller retains the product, no questions asked.

Further protection to the buyer could be offered by agreeing to a baseline price assuming the PPI is favorable. Only the value of items discovered during the PPI would be negotiated post PPI. Otherwise the agreed price sticks. Once the baseline is established, if another buyer comes in with a better offer, the seller should not take prospective buyer #1's money for the PPI and then sell to buyer #2.

HarryD · 10-04-2003, 01:13 PM

On my purchase, I negotiated a price and told the seller that unless the PPI indicated other a need for other "serious" work that:

a) we had not already discussed; and
b) had a significant repair cost.

That would be the price. Based on the PPI disclosure, there were several issues (low compression/leakdown) and we negotiated a further adjustment based on these findings.

Prior to this car, I looked at several other promising cars that got to the PPI Stage. On PPI examination, the deal was no good and terminated. Who owned those PPI's? Frasnkly, me. I discussed the relevant findings but since I paid for the work, I own the product. If the seller wanted the results, I offered to sell them to him at half price.

Sounds hard but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

MarkY · MarkY's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by TSNAPCRACKLEPOP
why would you even offer the car for sale, someone might buy it, taking you seriously.

Huh???????

cyprusx · 10-04-2003, 06:58 PM

Well, if I ever sell my car and the prospective buy wishes for a PPI, I would do the following:

1). Have him find the place where they want it done.
2). Verify the place and either agree and let them do it or have them find another place. I wouldn't let some hack touch my car..
3). Make an agreement up front that I will receive the PPI results in full

I don't see any reason why the seller shouldn't exclusively own the results of any tests. Yes, the potential buyer is paying for it but it is their choice and provides them with reassurance at a cost. You are without your car, have to travel to the place, etc. If the potential buyer of my car does not agree, hopefully I will be a position to say, thanks but no thanks...

Paul Valcourt · 10-05-2003, 07:18 AM

The report resulting from the PPI would be considered intellectual property (IP). Ownership of the IP would have to be established prior to the IP being created no matter who paid for it. The shop could lay claim to the IP if ownership was not established and resell it or distribute it to whomever they wanted. Its all in the fine print.