1984 911 wiring sequency for key ignition

[Switzer Deason]

HELP!
I need help with ignition wiring for my 1984 911 Targa (that only
Has 70,000 miles).
The ground wire that runs from my radio to a 9 pin electrical module behind the ignition key shorted and burned.
I pulled the module from behind the ignition key, popped the cover, and was going to replace the burned ground wire, but the nine wires came out of the module and I need help with the sequence to reinsert them.
There are nine wires inserted into10 pin holes in the module.
One of the pin holes evidently is to be left empty.
Does anyone have, or can you hand draw, a sketch for me to follow.
When I put the module back on now, the starter engages,
even though the ignition is off, and the starter stays engaged while the engine is running.
I have a shop manual for the car, but it does not contain a sketch
for re-inserting the nine wires/pins.

Switzer Deason
Belton, Texas
Email: switzerdeason@msn.com
Phone: 254.780.1100

[Switzer Deason]

call Pelican technical support, they can provide you a diagram for putting the pins back in sequence

[Rob McKibbon]

YUP! Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Isn't that just the sweetest feeling? I was working on my ignition switch last fall too. Studied all the threads on how to remove the ignition switch and everything. Next thing ya know, wires starting falling off the back of the switch, too many to count! I didn't know which wire was for where? I thought my switch was fried, but it seriously looked like a loose connection was my problem.
I hotwired the car and drove it to a Porsche guy who had it all back together in an hour. Worked perfect, but now the switch is acting up again?
Good Luck with yours.

Anyone else working on the ignition switch. Be CAREFUL! There is a plastic cap that snaps onto the rear of the switch. This cap holds the wires in place that plug into the switch. If you remove this cap, the wires can potentially fall out of the switch. Keep the cap on until you can pull the switch down below the dash and mark the locations, otherwise it's a dogs breakfast.

[Switzer Deason]

Hello John Chi at Pelican:

I have two shop manuals for a 1984 Porsche 911, but the wiring diagrams in my manuals are just that . . . wiring diagrams and do not have anything on the 10 pin circular module behind he ignition key. My suspicion is that your "Bentley Manual" is a repeat of my manuals when it comes to wiring diagrams. What I need is a diagram of the circular module behind the ignition key that has 10 holes in it for 9 wires and that tells me which wire goes in which hole. There are amperage numbers beside the holes on the outside of the module, but this is not enough help. Got any other ideas?

Switzer Deason
----- Original Message -----
From: John at Pelican Parts
To: switzerdeason@msn.com
Cc: Eli at Pelican Parts
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: my earlier email to you re problem with igniting wiring on 1984 911 targa


Hello Deason,

I have wiring diagrams but nothing that goes up to 1984. All we have available is the Bentley manual with wiring diagrams.
Porsche 911 Carrera Service Manual, by Bentley Publishing, 911 Carrera (1984-89)
PEL-P989 $95.00



Regards,

John Chi
Sales/Technical Support
John@pelicanparts.com
1-888-280-7799, Ext:248

[LeeH]

Arrgghhh!!! Well, I thought I'd be helpful and pull my ignition cable and sketch the wiring order. The cover got away from me and it all came apart in my hand. I'm in the same boat now.

[Kurt B]

I'll try and look today expecting to be in the same boat if I'm not careful, and snap a picture or two or sketch the wiring order. It's 7am on the westcoast, and I'll be heading off to do my car projects for saturday = zen time, shortly.

[Switzer Deason]

Originally posted by LeeH
Arrgghhh!!! Well, I thought I'd be helpful and pull my ignition cable and sketch the wiring order. The cover got away from me and it all came apart in my hand. I'm in the same boat now.

LeeH--
You know, I earlier asked myself whether I would take a look at my ignition module for someone who had posted the same problem, and before I could force an answer from my psyche, I received your email. A big thanks, but I am really distressed that the same thing happened during your good samaritan effort to help me. Maybe someone will be able to help both of us.

When my wires popped out (while I was holding the module), I immediately put it down, went inside, retrieved a marks a lot pen, and numbered the popped out sequence of all but one of the wires. The one I was unable to determine the location of was the ground wire to the radio that had fried. Because it had the insulation burned off, it fell from the disconnected module wires to the floor. But even numbering eight of the wires, I am still unable to determine which of the 10 pin holes is the one to be left empty by the nine wires to be inserted. It's kind of like picking a power ball number for the lotto.

Let's stay in touch.

Switzer Deason

[Switzer Deason]

Originally posted by Kurt B
I'll try and look today expecting to be in the same boat if I'm not careful, and snap a picture or two or sketch the wiring order. It's 7am on the westcoast, and I'll be heading off to do my car projects for saturday = zen time, shortly.

Kurt B
Be careful. See Lee H's good samaritan effort that back fired . . . and my response to him. This problem could become a SARS-like virus spreading from porsche owner to porsche owner.

Switzer

[LeeH]

Hey, it's no big deal. The cover didn't come off as easily as I expected. Then, it came off suddenly while I was holding the plug so all the pins came out. The way I see it, it's just another education in progress.

Kurt... or anyone else who plans to come to our rescue:
The wires/pins are loose in the plug - the cover on the back is what holds the whole thing together. Knowing what I know now, I think I would have looped a big rubber band (maybe several) tightly around the wire bundle and tightly around the hard plastic plug BEFORE removing the cover. Still, don't assume being careful is enough! I don't think I could ask help from anyone who uses their 911 as primary transportation! If it falls apart, you're stuck.

I can hear the CNN headlines now... thousands of Porsche owners have been stranded...

[yelcab1]

Did this on my 84 Cab, and had to rewire it the hard way.

I only had a cheapy $12.95 manual for the Porsche 911 Series from ... I forgot. It had a wiring diagram for the 911. They were very similar from year to year. Even the wire colors are all the same.

1. Figured out what pin were connected to what other pins for each of the positions of the switch, there are 3 or 4 positions. THis is how the switch works.
2. Read from a wiring diagrams the color of the wires going to each circuits
3. Figured out from the schematics how each of the circuits worked

From the way the circuits worked, the color of the wires on the schematics, and knowledge how the switch worked, I put it all back together.

I am a Electrical Engineer, and sort of used to troubleshooting this way, and still took hours. I am sure I can do this again, but I no longer have the book, or the car.

[LeeH]

Yipee!!! We're back in business. I stopped by C U L8R's house this afternoon and he let me stare at his Bentley manual. While there were no handy, dandy pictures of the wiring harness as it enters the ignition switch, there were some (at the time) cryptic letters and numbers on the wiring diagram. If I had done as Jeff suggested and brought the little plug along it would have been apparent how things worked.

When I got home I looked at the plug and saw letters/numbers that rang a bell. I pulled out the '84 wiring diagram in my Haynes manual and there they were again. Ten minutes of studying/comparing the wires and the plug and it all came together... pun intended.

Here's the key for the nine wires:

Red = 30
Red = 30
Red = 30
Red/yellow = X
Red/white = X
Green (or in my case gray) = P
Yellow = R
Red/Black = 15
Yellow = 50

Just check the plug, both inside and outside and you'll see the markings for 30, X, P, R, 15, and 50. In a few cases the label may be between the two holes suggesting that both holes do the same thing.

There are two yellows listed. The small, thin yellow is "R" (radio) and the much thicker is the "50". Other than needing about four hands to install and hold everything together it went pretty smoothly. Note that the reds that go to the "30" holes are different lengths so plug them in accordingly. Also, one of the reds had another smaller wire attached... that threw me off for a moment. I plugged it all in and it fired right up with no burning smells, smoke, explosions, fire or any of the other things I was prepared for.

[Kurt B]

Thanks Lee. I got under there today but couldn't see anything and backed off until tomorrow....glad you got it resoloved!

[LeeH]

I'm wondering if this information applies to all Carreras or just '84. In the Haynes manual the '84 and '85 are different.... the problem may be that the abbreviations for the wire colors are in German in my '85 diagram. That could really be misleading.

Abreviation for
Red '84 = RE '85 = RT
Yellow '84 = YE '85 = GE
Etc... there's one symbol I can't even read - it looks Cyrillic. If I'd been referring to the '85 diagram I never would have figured this out.

[Switzer Deason]

LeeH et al--

. . . I am reminded of a bible story from my sunday school days when the 10 lepers were healed and sent to the Rabbi to be "certified" as healed (evidently rabbis were also the county health agents for such occasions in biblical times). Anyway, only of the healed lepers came back to say "THANK YOU". I am that 10th leper.

A "GREAT BIG THANK YOU!"

Rewired it this morning and it cranked like a top. The sequence you gave me bore little resemblance to the sequence the wires were in when they initially fell out of the module (and I numbered them with a marks alot).

The only thing I was uncertain about was "which pin hole to leave blank". I assumed it was one of the two 15 amp holes, because I only had one 15 amp wire for the two holes designated 15 amp. On the other hand, the wire that fried and started the problem had all of the insulation burned off and I don't know what color it was. Got any other thoughts on this?

Again . . . MANY THANKS!

Switzer Deason

[zymurgist]

Guess what..? I did the exact same thing to my '70 911 when trying to find a short. I popped the cover off the connector for the ignition switch and out popped ALL of the wires! Doh!

Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what wires go where. You see, I have 5 red wires, 1 small yellow, 1 large yellow, and 1 gray. The yellow and gray wires, I can easily identify. The red ones have me stumped. Why..? Because none of the red wires have any kind of different color stripes on them. They may have had stripes at one time, but they must have worn off over the years.

Here's the deal. When the wires came out, I found that 4 red wires and the large yellow wire are only about 6 inches long. All these wires go to a round 6 pin connector in which only 5 pins are used. I unplugged this connector (which only plugs in in one orientation so I'm not worried about it) The other red wire, along with the gray wire and the small yellow wire, appear to be part of the dash wiring harness. Can anyone help me figure out which unstriped red wire goes to which terminal?