Clarify Banana Bushings Please Help!

[Craig Roche]

I'm in the middle of rear suspension rework, detailing etc. With the help of this forum I finally got the dang torsion bars out. Slide hammer and liquid wrench. I'm putting in new TB's and Chucks Polybronze on the spring plates. My question is: Can the banana arm bushings be replaced with the engine in and can it be done without taking apart the axles? Thanks for the help!:

[dickster]

thinking i should do this also.

if you can remove the bolt at the bushing - depends what way round its been inserted.

[304065]

Check the archives on "banana arms" but I think the consensus is that you either have to pull the motor or saw the heads of the bolts off and pound them through with a punch.

You ARE putting a set of Chuck's monoballs back there "while you are at it," right?

[Rick Lee]

Craig what kind of car do you have? I think the pre-G50 cars make it possible to get those bolts out with the tranny still in the car. This was the absolutely most miserable job I've ever done - and I did it with the engine and tranny out of the car.

[Craig Roche]

Hi Richard, I have a 84 Targa. I guess I think since I'm this deep I might as well take care of this also. Miserable because the old bushings wouldn't come out?

[Rick Lee]

YES! I could not get those metal sheaths out of there to save my life and I did not want to take the trailing arms off and put them in a shop press. So I took the easy way out and bought the Weltmeister poly bushings, which slipped right in. Once I figured this out, it was smooth sailing.

[Craig Roche]

Ok, I haven't even looked at it yet so I'm not sure I fully understand. So do you have to take the metal sheaths out to put in the monoballs and do you think this can be done with the engine in? I definitely on a learning curve here so bear with me on the dumb questions!! Thanks

[Early_S_Man]

On '72 thru '86 915 cars they can be done without pulling the engine ... even if the bolt is in the wrong way! A 'partial-drop' is the answer .. where engine-trans mounts are unbolted and the whole assembly is lowered 4" - 5" ... it isn't much fun loosening an M14 bolt at 94 lb-ft, sideways, laying on your back, but I have done it!!! Neither axles nor electrical connections have to be removed for the painful task ... and, a pair of 18" long breaker-bars and 22 mm sockets will be needed!

You will have to disconnect the shift coupler, though!

[Rick Lee]

Dunno about the monoballs, but my guess is they will not go in unless you press out the inner metal sheaths that house(d) the old bushings. They are really in there and I can't imagine using a torch and impact chisel while laying in that position is any fun. Best bet is to remove the trailing arms and get the inner sheaths pressed out.

[Rot 911]

This sounds like something I might want to do while my engine and tranny are out!

[chrisp]

Yes the bolts can be taken out while the engine and tranny are installed. That is how I did my '83 SC. It's a bit of a struggle and you'll drop the bolt four or five times before you get it situated right. It's just patience and determination not skill or talent. You can do it.

Get the rear end as high off the ground as possible. The straighter you can get your arms the easier it is. Also wear glasses becuase all sort of crap will land on your face. Especially when you start beating the car becuase you cannot get the bolts in or out.

I decided to pull my arms off the car and then install my new spherical bushings. The sphericals are the only way to go unless it's primarliy an all conditions street car...then OEM rubber is probably better becuase the sphericals are not as weather proof. A press is the best way to get the OEM bushings out.

[Craig Roche]

Ok now it's getting clear. So if I take the bananas all the way off it's much easier to change the bushings. So should a guy replace all the wheel bearings? I'm replacing the TB's, the spring plate bushings now the trailing arm bushings, what else should be looked at. Thanks you all for writing in, big big help!!!

[chrisp]

I took the opportunity to:

Clean everything fully. You can make aluminum control arms look brand new with some steel wool.
Replace t-bar bushings with Neatrix
Replace wheel bearings
Replace control arm bushing with monoballs
Repack CV joints
Change brake fluid since brakes are disconnected anyway.
New spring plate hardware

You could also:
Change rear soft brake lines if they're old.
New parking brake shoes if needed
New rotors if they are needed.

For me the wheel bearings were the biggest project. The biggest part of the whole rear end disassembly/reassembly.

[Craig Roche]

Hey Chrisp, thanks for the list! Here's what I was up to so far:

Definetely clean everything, I'm a bit anal!! But hey, why not right?
Replace t-bar bushings with Polybronze from Chuck
Now the control arm Monoballs
Soft brake lines to SS

What do you mean - spring plate hardware (bolts, cover)?
Repack the CV should be fairly simple?
Brake fluid sure make sense

So, are the bearings expensive? Also, can a self proclaimed novice mechanic handle it? Is there special tools required?

I'm starting to feel my wallet pains, oh no!!

Thanks again to all!!

[Jdub]

I hear again and again that 1) these bushings last a long while and do not necessarily need to be replaced and that 2) you do not want sphericals/monoballs in there because the original configuration keep the rotation of the arm in the correct plane where the monoballs cannot.

Any opinions on this? Many thanks in advance as this is something I could include in my rebuild.

John

[chrisp]

Jdub-
You don't want poly bushings in the control arm because it moves in three axis. Poly restricts the control arm movement to just up and down and limits the second and third axis of movement. The monoballs let it move freely in all directions. The OEM rubber bushings are an inexpensive and very weatherproof bushing which does not restrict three axis of movement either but they deflect under higher g loading.

Since the entire suspension is mounted in three points (inboard chassis, hub/wheel, and torsion bar tube) as the wheel travels up and down the control arm (when view from the rear in this case) is moving up and down, side to side, and rotationally.

Craig-
if you can get the OEM rubber bushings out then the monoball insert is easy.

By hardware I mean the bolts/nuts that hold your spring plate to control arm and the hardware that secures the t-bar cap to the chassis. You don't need to replace the eccentric alignment bolts, just the two bigger ones that actually hold it all in place once tight. Make sure you use a spring nut for the spring plate to control arm hardware. A spring nut is actually slightly oval so that it does not vibrate loose. A nylok nut doesn't work as well as a spring nut.

Anal is good.

[Chuck Moreland]

The factory rubber bushings are actually composed of a pair of rubber bushes and a pair of metal cups that go around them. The rubber is easily removed, the metal cups a bit harder.

I provide instructions with my monoballs explaining the cup removal with pictures. Basically you use a chisel and hammer to drive them out from the center. Sometime a little heat on the trailing arm helps to loosen the cup. Not that hard when it's in a bench vise, everything is harder when you're on your back under the car.

Jdub, as chrisp says monoballs allow free movement in all required directions and are the optimal solution. It is polyurethane that causes problems with binding in this location.

[Craig Roche]

Hey Chuck, so what is this about the Monoball being for fair weather. My Porsche and I are new buddies and I'm not really sure how often It'll be driven. I imagine mostly nice days but how concerned would I be about being in the rain every now & then.

I'm in the middle of my rear suspension work and have not order parts yet and I want to make the best choice of course! The car is going to be used on the street and maybe I'll get into the track scene one day. I'm thinking 28 mm T-Bars, Polybronze Spring Plate Bearings. I'm not sure about the condition of the shocks. I didn't notice any problems driving. I one of the other threads I read something about matching the shocks. Enlighten me please! Thanks to all for your time!!

[Rick Lee]

I would have gone with Chuck's setup, but I did not want to remove my trailing arms and/or deal with pressing out the inner cups. Poly bushings were a small compromise for me, squeaked a little, went in easily. If you're taking the trailing arms off, then you might as well go all the way and get Chuck's setup.

[Jdub]

Thanks guys! That clears it up for me.

John