New to the porsche world

[absinthe]

I have had the fortune of inheriting my dads' 1986 911 Targa its low milage (70K) but I know next to nothing about the car and searching thses forums doesnt provide that much info because its a grey market car.


I would like the use the car for DE's and have several questions because Im coming out of a WRX used heavily for those purposes and it seems many things that hold true for one dont for the other. Cn anyone recomend and books or places to dig for info.

Now on to my big questions, I know I have more power than the US mkt cars but how much, I know they "amercanize" cars when they bring them in what would this be comprized of? (adding cats? changing lights?)

should I fear the higher compresion ratio, what should i do to avoid knocking? are there any power adds that are obvious and should be done? same for reliability mods?

Do they have different suspensions than US cars? if differnt what can i do to euro suspension it to improve cornering?

Which brakes do i have? what upgrades should I look at if any on that system? car has 16" wheels but I would like to get 17' cup wheels and keep the 16's for snow or track wheels.

WHere can I get the wheels ?

Strut tower & pelican targa braces, are they worth it?

Can I corner balance a stock suspension car, and is it worth it?

my total budget is probably 4-6K

[jester911]

Since no one else has chimed in yet, I will try to answer at least some of your questions.
The main difference I believe in the euro is the exhaust, no cat etc which is the main reason it has more power.

It depends on where you live as far as emissions are concerned.
I pretty sure the suspensions are the same. 17 in. wheels will fit but not necessary. The brakes are actually probably fine. You may need to vent them and use a proper brake fluid that has a higher boiling point but you could live with the stock brakes for a while at least.

Corner balancing is a good thing especially for track use. As far as strut braces you might want to do a search on this forum on that.
There are a couple of different schools of thought on the subject as to which type to use.

The euros are tuned for gas that is lower octane than US so you should not find a problem with knocking in that respect.

I am sure others will have plenty of info but you are in the right place.
Welcome and post some pics of the car.

[rdane]

I have both 16 and 17 wheels. I would not recommend 17" until you get past 250 HP. It is a gearing thing...but the 17s make the gearing higher and it's noticable.

Here is my journey. You have a Euro 3.2 so the engine is more powerful across the board. Suspension and interior is all about the same as the SC. SSIs are a true header so I suspect they are worth the money on a '86. Add a chip and a mass air flow. Pretty much my plan for rebuilding a Carrera when I find the right car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/116896-i-had-no-clue-long.html#post862059

[absinthe]

My understanding is that the ROW motor has 250 hp, but I dont know the losses due to the adjustments made when the car was imported. I also am under the impression that the car is lighter than US spec because it has no AC, power locks and a much smaller stereo system. please let me know if i am wrong.

Im in Cali so i get 91 octane water, which i thought was lower octane than the euro petrol.


Im thinking;

Strut Brace, Targa Brace, 4 piont harness
Short Shift (which one?)
Brakes (pads,fluid,rotors) more when needed.
Corner Balance
Twists/cup wheels 17's


then:
Sway Bars (which one?)
torsion Bars (which one?)


No idea what to do for power if anything.

Let me know if im making mistakes or dont understand some things about porsches like...Whyi cant just get front brakes it worked great on the subey

[Jack Olsen]

A non-US, non-Japan 1986 Carrera has 231 hp (as opposed to 207). I believe the Euro models have higher compression ratios, so you might run into trouble with gas, depending on where you live (and just for the record: over-the-counter octane boosters will not correct this).

I believe the only suspension differences between US and ROW would be ride height, but I'm no Carrera expert.

Your Carrera brakes are very good. If you have fading problems at the track, you can get cooling vents for them. ATE Super Blue fluid will also help. More aggressive pads will make the brakes feel grippier with less pedal effort.

A short-shift kit will put more stress on your synchros, which are the vulnerable part of your 915 transaxle. Cup wheels, unless they're aftermarket, will require spacers to run on your car. Aftermarket duplicates are often very heavy, which will hurt you in autocross. It will also become a PITA to put the regular wheels back on. Fuchs are probably the best choice (and the best looking wheel, in my opinion).

The stock suspension settings can be improved upon, depending on how much street use you're planning on, versus how much autocross/track.

[TomTurtle]

absinthe:

For reading, I'd recommend Wayne Dempsey's "101 Projects for your Porsche 911" (get it from Pelican) and "Porsche 911 Handbook" by Bruce Anderson, both are excellent "hands on" type books. Also the Bentley publishers 911 Porsche shop manual may come in handy.

For background/research there are many on the market. My favorites are the "Porsche 911 Redbook" by Patrick Paternie, "The Used 911 Story" by Peter Zimmerman and "Porsche 911 Story" by Paul Frere.

I'm sure all of these are obtainable from Pelican or Amazon.

[absinthe]

The car will probably see 8-10 DE's per year, and I'm young and foolish so slightly stiffer ride is acceptable. The car has 16" I dont know which wheels now but they dont look like the Fuchs every shows Pics of. The advice on the brakes has been great I'll duct them and run pads untill my driving over runs them.

As for suspension how much lower is euro spec? and what starting point after strut tower brace would be best, rear sway? do they make adjustable ones or are the one stiffness?

Oh yeah 2 more things what does the car weigh? and what would it take to get to a HP to weight ratio of 10-1?


Thanks for the advice on the books ordered 101 projects and will probably get at least on more

[rdane]

Decent 16" tires, like and S03 or dot race tires will go a long ways to making the car more fun and keep the weight down on Fuchs wheels. New pads, fluids and venting Carrera brakes are the best solution.

Car should weigh around 2600# or 1260kg. Car started with 231hp at the crank or 196 at the wheels. Best weight drop on your car is adding Ricaro Pole Position or other really light weight seats. Loose the AC is a good weight drop also if you have it. Most of the other stuff is really only a bandaid on weight drop.

Stock suspension on these cars will out drive most anything even many newer cars. 22/30 is a common steup on Tbars. Sanders hollow bars seems to be the thing. Sways I'd leave alone for awhile and put the $ into drive time. Corner balance is mandatory to get the most out of it. But the cars are a little bit more difficult to drive well. Adding hp is easy enough with a good chip and better air filter, but it is still limited.

[MFAFF]

Good reference book is the Original 911 by Peter Morgan (Bay View books.

On the front cover is a pic of the Carrera 3.2 Club Sport version.
I recall it was a RoW model in a similar vein to the 73 Rs. Get the specs off that ands et yours up in a similat fashion. Its probably a good starting point.....

[masraum]

increasing the power in a 911 is very expensive, it's much cheaper to decrease the weight, read this forum more and do some searches, all of the info that you have asked is already here in spades.

There are thicker sways and torsion bars (springs), and there are also adjustable sways. The torsion bars (stock susp) are pretty much infinitely adjustable. These cars very much benefit from alignment and corner balance tweaks. You may want to refresh the bushings and shocks on the car. Bushings are often neglected.

The 17" cup wheels will look cool, but they will also be heavier, which will hurt acceleration, braking, and handling. If you have a light weight 16" wheel that will see the better performance.

The Euro cars have higher comp, so you need to run a high oct gas.

Federalization should comprise of lots of things, possibly including door beams, emissions, lights, increased ride height.

The above recommendations are great.

With 4-6K you'll be able to do a fair amount of modding if you do the work yourself, otherwise it won't last long.

Have fun.

[absinthe]

WHat would the emisions work be comprised of ? cats etc.?

Also ride hieght how did they adjust that up? and how much? if possible I would like to go back to stock euro height.

WHat do 911 batteries weigh the battery in the car is an exact stock replacement. And would pulling 20 or so pounds out of the nose affect the way the car handles?

[masraum]

I would guess that a cat would be added, but I don't know what else

I can't be sure that they change the ride height. measure from the ground to the bottom edge of the fender lip. The normally accepted "Euro" height is 25" rear and 25.5" front. Yes, the rear should be lower because the fenders are shaped differently.

[TomTurtle]

I have a contact in the UK who is one of the experts on the CS; send me a PM if you want his contact info. He should have a lot of ideas on setup if you want to turn your Euro '88 into a RoW CS.

I've only done a Steve Wong chip, Borla exhaust and Euro pre-muffler on mine and I'm running around 240-245hp at the flywheel from the stock 217. Also added K&N and strut brace with Fuch 7s and 8s.

[absinthe]

I still have the stock euro pre muffler I can re-install that does any one think there would be much gain from installing a flowmaster mufflerlike many people on the board have done inplace of the stock euro muffler?

What gains would i be looking at if I added a chip to this? would the euro car be more or less powerful than US model with same mods?

[TomTurtle]

With my CS I had the Borla and K&N before the chip and had about 235, after the chip I had around 241. The gain from the pre-muffler is estimated at 5-8hp; I have not had it dynoed yet to confirm. The most noticeable difference is the dramatic increase in throttle responsiveness throughout the mid to upper rev range. There are many SteveW chip supporters on this BBS. Can't speak as to the Euro cars, but I know the UK CS's routinely run on 96 octane so I assume a different compression setup.

[Superman]

You're getting some really excellent advice here. Some, if not all, of the contributors above have enough experience that you'd have to be a fool to ignore them. Instead, read the suggestions carefully.

Personally I'd say that, since it's a Porsche and therefore a race car with license plates, there is really nothing you need to do. Put fresh fluids in it, warm it up, and drive it like you're angry. It likes that. I'd suggest doing exactly this for a while.

But, if you're determined to bolt parts on the car, I'd suggest:

1) Stiffer torsion bars, adjustable spring plates, different sway bars with adjustable drop links and competition shocks. During this install, you would need to reset ride height anyway. Competitive 911's are set up this way, and the driver adjusts the car's handling characteristics largely by adjusting the sway bars. It works well. These devices can make the car very smooth and solid on any track.

2) Chip and exhaust. (although you already have enough power)

3) Tires. ALL....I repeat ALL.....of the performance parts on your car, from the engine to the brakes, to the suspension parts, focus their action on the contact patch between the tires and the road surface. Tires are the single most important system on the car, hands down.

4) Tear everything off the car except the parts that are needed to make the car go around a track. Yes, you can achieve 10:1 lbs/HP ratio. And when you do, someone who knows how to drive a 911 will be able to drive it around a track scary fast.Which brings me to:

Seat time. This is even more important than tires. Certainly WAY WAY WAY more important than horsepower. The Porsche 911 is a quirky car, whose quirks can be used to extend its performance beyond that of an ordinary car. Early, low-horsepower 911s have been making competitors scratch their heads for decades now. "How do they go so fast?" they ask. A 911, properly driven, looks like it's sliding nearly all the time. Because it is. The heavy rear end allows the car to finish the turn and point itself down the next straight before the other cars. Further, most of the weight of the car is on the rear axle at this moment, so you should be deep into the throttle at the ends of curves. The front is extremely light, which is good if you understand how to manage that, bad if you don't. Tapping the brakes as you enter a turn helps "set" the front.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm essentially telling you that the car, not the performance parts, is the real entertainment. You can have unbelievable fun, even without putting any performance parts onto the car. They already did that at the factory.

[absinthe]

I got a lot of seat time in the WRX and I have seen a few days behind the wheel of a DInan E34 m5 pushing 400 horse between that and my experience as a ski racer I have no issues with picking lines at least the right ones on paper.

Thats why I want to set it and forget it with the 911, with the WRX everytime i made an adjustment or added parts to the car I had to learn how to drive it all over again.

As for tires I think it will be R Compounds on the stock wheels.

Im just thankful for the advice here ecause I dont want to make expensive mistakes like i did last time i.e. first getting springs and konis then gutting that set up for DMS coil overs on the WRX.

Adjustable with the ability to handel all i could ever want in the suspension.

Power take what I can get for under 1000--Chip, exhaust, filter, smooth bore on stock t-body.

brakes bandaid them for now get more later. same with weight reduction some now more later.

Im still a little afraid of the car at the limit I have heard too many stories about the tail snapping out.

[absinthe]

I know I have a lot to learn thats partially why Im here and why you'll see me at every DE I can afford

[Paul Franssen]

Welcome, Absinthe (you don't drink that, do you? ). From memory, the euro 3.2 liter engine, producing 231 hp, has a compression ration of 10.3 to 1. It runs on 98 octane fuel (but that is a European octane rating, I understand it may be a different figure from the U.S. one... never been able to understand that properly). Even tho I have no first-hand experience with Steve Wong's chip, I understand his chips are individually tuned to work best under a (different) octane rating, moreover, Steve Wong understands the working of the 3.2 liter engine's power-delivery parameters very well, you could contact him (do a search on this site, to find his website and contact details). From having read you, I gather you know a helluva lot more about car tuning than I do, so...you've got a good basic car to git crackin' on!

[rdane]

You can have unbelievable fun, even without putting any performance parts onto the car. They already did that at the factory.

Well said Superman! The more seat time you have the more you realize just how true that comment is.

Venting Carrera brakes is no band aid. Lots of folks running that brake correctly set up on the track in competition. R rubber is cool but when they do let go, they really let go. You'll burn through tires fairly quickly. I went through 3 sets last year on the track. Never wore out a set of tires on the street.

911 isn't that hard to drive with a little education. But spinning one at speed with r rubber isn't all that difficult either from what I whitnessed in the last year's track time.

Coming from a guy who didn't mind opening his wallet, if I did it again, I'd first drive the car for a season keeping the brakes, tires and engine in tune.

Good steering wheel, belts and seat will keep you well planted and still unable to take advantage of a stock car for the short term I suspect.