The Beast Supercharger....can be yours.

Natchamp · 11-09-2003, 06:43 PM

Fellow Pelican Heads, since there were inquires about selling my supercharger setup when I decided to twin turbo, I wanted to let the board know it is now on ebay. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask (off list though since its off topic).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=33741&item=2442264831

k9handler · 11-09-2003, 08:19 PM

damn that is a sweet deal....xmas list

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Actually, you can ask questions here, as it is a most interesting setup...

-Wayne

samh · 11-10-2003, 03:09 AM

Maybe I didn't look at the specs but how much power did you get from your 3.0? How many pounds of boost were you running? You did an exceptional job on that engine. Tell us more about the twin turbo setup and the power you are getting along with some more pics please.

Schuey · 11-10-2003, 06:05 AM

looks like I'm bidding against wayne...

what will I need on this to bolt it up to my 3.0?

sammyg2 · 11-10-2003, 06:17 AM

I just jacked the price up a little, Sorry wayne

Schuey · 11-10-2003, 06:37 AM

wayne, just curious, why you would want this? your 911-less now...

RickM · RickM's Garage

Nice pro setup. Mark did you fab this up from scratch?

Frostie · 11-10-2003, 07:08 AM

Sorry if this is a stupid question but…

Isn’t the intercooler on the wrong side of the blower?

dotorg · 11-10-2003, 07:46 AM

Mmmmmmm supercharged 2.0...

JonT · 11-10-2003, 07:50 AM

Why go from a supercharged setup to twin turbo? What is the hp/torque difference? What's the advantage of 2 turbo's over one? Why? Why? Why?

CarreraS2 · 11-10-2003, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schuey
looks like I'm bidding against wayne...

what will I need on this to bolt it up to my 3.0?

I've always wondered this . . . why would anyone bid on anything when there are 6 days left in the auction??

What's the logic behind jacking the price up so early?

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-10-2003, 07:54 AM

Hey, it's my birthday this Thursday. Whoever wins the auction let me know and I'll send you my address.

beepbeep · 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonT
Why go from a supercharged setup to twin turbo? What is the hp/torque difference? What's the advantage of 2 turbo's over one? Why? Why? Why?

Turbochargers are more efficient, have less moving parts and last longer. Their disadvantage is turbo-lag that can be helped by using two smaller units that spin up faster than one big, trading off some efficiency and simplicity.

That's a simple explanation.

1fastredsc · 11-10-2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonT
Why go from a supercharged setup to twin turbo?

Because turbochargers are driven off of exhaust gas heat which is energy that's waisted away. Might as well use this energy for some extra kick. Supercharger are belt driven and use engine power in order to make power, not as efficient but still potent.

Quote:

Originally posted by JonT
What is the hp/torque difference? What's the advantage of 2 turbo's over one? Why? Why? Why?

With the headers on a turbo, the shorter the better. Why? Because the more surface area of exposed exhaust metal (whether stainless or regular steel), the more heat loss before the turbine therefore creating more lag. With a flat six, if you use two turbos you can split the exhaust gases between the banks and make really short headers therefore greatly reducing lag.

Frostie · 11-10-2003, 08:55 AM

will if i'm not wrong this is what the engine is from what I can see:
Base motor - 78 3.0L
Re-conditioned, Re-Nikasiled 3.2L cylinders
8.5:1 forged JE pistons with lightweight pins
Hastings rings
Re-conditioned connecting rods
ARP case studs and rod bolts
993 Super Sport cam profile
Complete head/valve job with high performance springs
Twin plug conversion
Crank fire ignition
Haltech engine management system with complete injection and
ignition programmability. 22 fuel and ignition programmable maps
for every 500 RPM increment. ECU inputs include: boost level,
intake charge temp, O2 ratio, RPM, throttle position, cylinder
head temp, etc.
Eaton M62 supercharger running 2:1 overdrive ratio producing
@ 8lbs of boost (adjustable)
Custom fabricated induction system including intercooler
SSI's and stainless Powertune mufflers

Is it just me or is the intercooler on the wrong side of the blower?

Pete Pranger · 11-10-2003, 09:06 AM

The infamous supercharger vs. turbo-supercharger debate.

Looks like I will have to defend the superchargers again.

While it is true that turbos use a (wasted) form of energy-exhaust, and the supercharger doesn't, the turbo isn't exactly "free" either. As anyone who has ever changed a muffler or exhaust system for a more "free flowing" exhaust knows, any restriction to exhaust flow costs power. Now, add a turbo to the exhaust flow and you are causing a restriction. Yes, the benefits outweigh (quite substantially I will add) the price of restriction, I am just trying to show that they aren't "free" power.

I like superchargers for several reasons: They are basically a "plug and play" setup. Bolt it on and have fun, whereas a turbo setup is much more complicated to plumb (exhaust has to be professionally bent and welded no mild carbon steel here, intercoolers are almost mandatory then there's waste gates, boost controllers, etc) too much boost on the blower? Change the pulley. Want a little more? Change the pulley. The supercharger's power is very linear. It produces power as a function of engine speed whereas the turbo (depending on size and type) requires time to "spool up" so the lower end power is not as great. A turbo system will produce more heat than a supercharger (ever tried to put your hand on a turbo while its running? Don't) The efficiency question has once again come up and I once again respectfully disagree. As far as lasting longer and having fewer parts, I don't agree with that either. Put your turbo parts next to a complete blower setup and you will see what I mean. There are literally thousands of superchargers on cars today, they have a HUGE following with the mustang and camaro crowd (not to mention sport compacts). American car makers build blower motors at the factory (along with turbos) busses, tractors, even bulldozers use blowers almost indefinately.

To help with the question on why twin turbos. A turbo uses a turbine and a compressor. The compressor will flow a specific amount of air at a specific rpm. The larger the compressor, the more air it will flow. The larger the compressor, the larger the turbine needed and of couse more motive force (in this case exhaust gas). If you want a turbo to support a 3.0l motor at 6800 rpm then it has to flow enough air. If you use one turbo, it has to be large and maybe not spool up until 4000 rpm (not good for low speed driving). Now if you take two smaller turbos they only have to support half the motors need for air. They therefore spool up faster and are more "responsive" this is very advantageous for the street. This in addition of couse with what 1fastredsc said.

In conclusion, after having built and run both types on everything from drag cars to street cars to airplanes, I let the situation and $$$ available make my determination on which to run. For instance, I don't have any room on the front of my motor right now, so I will be building a turbo motor. But my 69 camaro is getting a blower.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Frostie
Is it just me or is the intercooler on the wrong side of the blower?

It's just you.

The fan pulley turns clockwise, so the blower is pumping air out the top/right into the intercooler.
-Chris

Frostie · 11-10-2003, 09:25 AM

Gotcha Crise…thanx

It looked like the blower was on top of the intake

Natchamp · 11-10-2003, 01:09 PM

Samh – I never did put the supercharged motor on a dyno so I can’t say for sure on the power output. It had a ton of torque, to say the least. Chainsaw comes to mind. It would also depend on what motor its put on and what type of modifications (if any) have been done to that motor. I ran @ 10-12 lbs of boost, which is adjustable by changing the pulley on the SC.

RickM – Yes, I fab’d it all from scratch. No, I will never get my money out of it (I don’t even think about the hours).

Frostie - Don’t know what you mean about the IC being on the wrong side.

All – I really didn’t intend to have this start into a huge turbo versus SC debate. It’s safe to say they both have their strengths and weaknesses.

All – I have been asked a lot about whether or not it would fit a particular motor. It will fit any motor, and not bolt on to any motor! As the auction indicates, it’s not a kit so if you are not mechanically inclined and can do some fabrication, please don’t apply. However, I am more than willing to help in any way I can with whomever ends up with my baby.