That's why the 911's has their own body-design!!?

[Jocke]

I always wonder why the 911 was constructed in the front with the high fenders/lights and low hood.

Now i heard two interesting explanations.

1. Thoose high fenders was made for keeping the airpressure on the hood and in that case make better handling.

2. Thoose high fenders was made for the driver to see where the front corners of the vehicle was.

Is there someone who can confirm any of this? Or are the body designed for some other reason?

/Jocke

[Andras]

Jocke,

As a architect/designer, I would have to agree with your conclusion, but not your cause-effect relationship.

1. The hood is propbably low so that the air pressure at speed forces the front of the car down. However, if air gets under the car at the front, then it will cause lift, as in an airplane. Therefore, Porsche placed the so-called chin spoiler at the front.

2. The fenders are probably high to meet the headlamp height criteria set by governments. They might also help to channel the air over the low hood. But then note that Porsche itself solved that problem with the slant-nose cars, whereby they used pop-up headlamps to meet the height requirement, and yet the lift issue was still solved by the chin spoiler.

3. A consequence of the high fenders is that you CAN see where the corners are, but I doubt that Butzi Porsche worried too much about that in the early days of his career. He is now an experienced, consummate designer who worries about all these details (that's what designer do), but I think when he was young and designed the original 901, he was not thinking of the high fendersas channels as much as he was trying to recognize the 356, which had the same conditions.

Interesting topic, worth much more discussion. Hope this helps.......Andras

[Superman]

The fenders are shaped that way so that admirers will be reminded of breasts.

[Andras]

And the rears are shaped like that (especially the Turbos) so that they remind you of .......

[Superman]

Yep.

[Jocke]

Andras: Thanks for comment!

Superman: No women i had has breast liked my 911, where do i find them??

/J

[Wil Ferch]

Seriously.... Ferry Porsche had always insisted on fenders being a high reference point to help position the car in corners. Of course, you need headlights at a certain height...
Another view is that the headlights need to be where they are..and the severely sloping front hood is a "purity-of-design" statement that says it "can" be low because there is no engine there !
---- Wil Ferch

[Bob's Flat-Six]

If you look at the early VW bugs and the 356's that followed and finally the 911 there is a definite common line they share.
The 356's and 911's were lowering the center of gravity to produce a sporting car.

[island911]

It is a common misconception that one feature will have just one function, or justification. While there exists many examples of 'one feature/one function' in many products designed by seperate teams; with the 911, this just is not the case.

In my minds-eye, the 911 is a masterpiece of design balance and feature synergy.

. . .so, my answer is; D (all the above)

[Bob's Flat-Six]

Originally posted by Superman
The fenders are shaped that way so that admirers will be reminded of breasts.

There is probably more truth to this statement than we care to admit.
And then you have the rear ends
If you are a young man designing a Sports car you have a lot of things on your mind

[911SCfanatic]

Wow! Some insight into my subconscious. I knew I just had to have a 911 ever since I was a young boy!

[Andras]

And don't forget that the Corvette has often been claimed to be a penis extension for those driving it!!!!!

However, I wonder what THEY say about women driving it?????

[Superman]

Glenn is correct, at least in this instance.

I was amazed when I realized the stroke of genius it was to design these engines with a dry sump oil system. First, our engines are oil-cooled more than they are air-cooled. So, the dry sump system allows enough volume for this.

Dry sump also prevents oil from foaming in the case, getting in the way of the crank lobes and sloshing around in the sump causing temporary oil pressure loss.

And there are other benefits of the dry sump system, but my favorite is startup oil pressure. By placing the tank above the oil pump, there is constant positive oil pressure against the pump inlet. This means that in the morning when I start my car, I wait approximately zero seconds for oil pressure to develop. I personally believe this alone is responsible for a great deal of the longevity reputation of these engines.

Genius. This is what it looks like.

[Randy Webb]

Unlike the svelte 911....

The 356 “resembled a Bavarian laundry woman from the rear.” p. 227 in Seif, Ingo. 1985. PORSCHE: PORTRAIT OF A LEGEND.

[Beethoven]

Superman,
what you say sounds very interesting, but for the linguistically and mechanically challenged, can you elaborate? What exactly is a dry sump system? How is it related to the fact that this is a flat (opposing cylinder) motor?
In short, I'd like to know more about why our engines are, as you say, a stroke of genius.
Sorry if that bores the self-wrenching crowd.
Thanks

[Norm Faustino]

It has been said that when viewed from the side, both the 911 and the 356 coupes resemble an airfoil due to their cambered profiles. I agree.

[no substitute]

I've always believed in the stretched Beetle theory too. Occam's Razor.

[howie944]

Simple answer to dry sump (not how it functions) is... no oil pan. Thus engine mass can be placed lower in chassis lowering the center of gravity. As for how it works and operating benefits... I'll leave that to the "gurus" to explain.

[aigel]

On an engine with an oil pan, the oil is picked up from the pan by the oil pump. Works great but the engine has to have a pan with a reservoir underneath it. Also, once you start going into serious curves, the oil will slosh around in that pan and the oil pump pickup may end up dry, so you will have no oil pressure. That's very bad, especially in a competition driving scenario, where you may be at 6000rpm when it happens. There are baffles and extended capacities in regular oil pans to avoid the sloshing around and starvation. E.g. drag racing engines need these modifications too.

Now in a dry sump system, the oil, after being pumped througth the engine and the bearings, just like it is in a regular engine, falls to the bottom and there is a pickup, a scavenge pump's pickup. That will get all the oil and pump it in an oil tank. (On the 911 it also get's cooled at this point, but le'ts ignore that). That oil tank is rather tall and has a lot of volume. Hence there is little room for the oil to slosh around and it always stands high. At the very bottom of the oil tank is where the oil is then taken up by the pressure pump to lube the engine. Take a peek at your oil tank next time you check the oil level, it is pretty full and has a skinny profile to it.

HTH? George

Originally posted by Randy Webb
Unlike the svelte 911....

The 356 “resembled a Bavarian laundry woman from the rear.” p. 227 in Seif, Ingo. 1985. PORSCHE: PORTRAIT OF A LEGEND.

LOL I've never seen a bavarian laundry woman, but somehow I don't need to. I can imagine how she'd look

Seriously I think the design of the front fenders has been influenced by a number things. First the car had to look somewhat similar to the 356s. Second they had to contain a certain amount of components (oil cooler, head lamps, offer enough wheel clearance etc.). Third they had to look good and provide the 911 with some personality, which in fact they do. Then there's aerodynamics also. The fact that one can use the front fenders to "aim" with is most likely a coincidence I guess.