Brake Help Please

JonT · 11-25-2003, 05:38 AM

I took my car in to have the leak checked (I posted a week or so ago on this) and my mechanic is telling me the front left caliper is shot and is recommending:

-- new front OEM calipers
-- Mintex CTech pads
-- cleaning up the rotors (not replacing)
-- stainless steel brake lines front/rear
-- total estimate of $900

How does this sound as a recommendation for improved braking street/track day (5-10 days/year)?

Is there anything else I should be doing? What about rear brakes? My budget is variable here (but not unlimited)--I don't really know what these upgragrades should cost without overkill.

All parts on braking system are stock now and as they wear out I'm planning on upgrading for better performance.

Thanks for all the help!

Rot 911 · 11-25-2003, 05:44 AM

Why is the caliper shot? Any reason why it can't be rebuilt? New calipers will run about $420 for the front set, the lines another $50.00, brake pads another $30.00 or so. Based on that what he is charging you is not out of line.

dtfastbear · 11-25-2003, 06:04 AM

Man, that sounds like a lot of coin just to keep the stock system. I'd ask the same question - why new calipers? They don't have any moving parts, and rebuiling them takes about 30 minutes and a $15 rebuild kit. I'd definitely ask for a very clear explanation of what "shot" means. The only thing I can think of would be if the caliper was damaged somehow - the piston bores nicked or heavily corroded...

Also, I don't think a competent mechanic should take 4 hours to replace the parts we're talking about, so if there are $500 in parts, what does the other $400 represent?

my 2 cents...

Dean

BGCarrera32 · 11-25-2003, 06:10 AM

Calipers are generally rebuildable if done carefully and the seal kit is $10-15 a caliper if memory serves correctly. It is really easy, just takes time and patience. If the pistons in the caliper are not gouged or pitted, they should be rebuildable I would think. I would not flat out replace them yet. There is no way to know if the caliper is rebuildable without taking it apart, but odds are they can be done. This is normal and guys have done it a hundred times before.

I rebuilt all of my calipers, had my rotors resurfaced (there was enough meat left on them per the spec), changed out 2 of the hard lines, replaced my master cylinder (long story behind that), new stainless hoses, new fluid, painted the calipers, Metal Master brake pads...and was well under $900, doing all the work myself.

Yes, my brakes were shot and screwed up, hence all the work.

From what I've gathered here over the last year, the big braking improvements don't come until you hit the big bucks. Most guys just switch over to a track pad for DE or track days (like a Pagid Orange or Porterfield R4) to up the brake capability on track day.

There is a ton of info here in the archives on rebuilding brakes, bleeding, and bedding in the pads. I bought all of my parts from Pelican.

-BG

JonT · 11-25-2003, 06:12 AM

He said the calipers are "pitted".

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

For <$150 you can do all that yourself in a few hours.

I also think that worse case would be that the pistons need replacing, still much cheaper than replacing the whole caliper.

JonT · 11-25-2003, 06:15 AM

Would it be out of line for me to ask him to show me why it needs to be replaced? I feel like I would be showing my distrust in him.

BGCarrera32 · 11-25-2003, 06:16 AM

But what part of the caliper? Well, hopefully someone else can weigh in here, but I would be worried about the pistons being pitted, as that is what is moving through the seal. If the caliper bore casting is pitted...so what...? If he means the pistons are pitted, there may be other options there as far as getting by cheaper...I think you can individually replace pistons too.

BGCarrera32 · 11-25-2003, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Would it be out of line for me to ask him to show me why it needs to be replaced? I feel like I would be showing my distrust in him.

Heck no!...especially if its currently apart at his shop...if he gets defensive go elsewhere...if he's willing reward him with your business.

dtfastbear · 11-25-2003, 06:20 AM

It is funny the relationship that people have with their mechanics... I'm the same way sometimes - I don't want to question them to show distrust since they are the experts. HOWEVER! It is YOUR money and YOU are the customer. You have absolutely positively every right to ask to see the "damage" and to ask about alternatives. If he's the kind of mechanic you want, he'll gladly talk you through the options and explain why replacing a piston or two or rebuilding is not an option here.

Definitely ask.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

How would he know they're pitted - has he taken it apart already?

Jdub · 11-25-2003, 07:36 AM

Jon:

You can do this. You can purchase the flare wrenches, the brake fluid, the caliper rebuild kits (two), a new set of Brembo rotors (or have your old ones turned down), and the stainless brake lines.

When you are done, with our help and a weekend or so, you will have the tools, the knowledge, and the satisfaction of having done this yourself.

Now, if you cannot wrench this part of your car that's OK too. But you should study information in the archives here so that you can approach your mechanic with a picture in your mind about the system/component being repaired.

It is hard to understand how he would know the calipers are pitted. In this case, he would need to have removed the brake pad, as a minimum, seen that the rubber boot cover for the caliper's round puck was ripped or gone, and then been able to either postulate or visually ID that there is pitting along the side of the calper pucks that slide in and out of the caliper body. Chances are, he took a look and extrapolated that the caliper probably needed replacing. That is not a bad diagnosis and certainly if he saw any evidence of the rubber boot being torn then it is not a bad thing to advise your customer to have their brakes done.

That said, the rebuild kit is $15.00. You need only carefully remove the caliper (two 17mm bolts), undo the brake line from the caliper, and then blow the pucks out, clean everything, paint the caliper a nice pleasing silver, and reassemble.

John

dtfastbear · 11-25-2003, 07:40 AM

19mm bolts, I think...

makaio · 11-25-2003, 07:40 AM

If you absoulutley need new calipers, at least upgrade to Carrera calipers. They are about the same price, and the rotors are not much more.

As far as needing new calipers, mine on my SC were pretty shot out with pitting on the pistons and the bores so I opted to replace. I wish I would have thought of the 3.2 Carrera calipers when I did this.

And it is not out of line to aske to be shown what is wrong.

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

thats what i was thinking thom. you think if he had them apart already (he would need this to determine pitting) he would show you the pitting. brakes are one of those things that strike fear in the uninformed, as they should if thing are amiss.

they are 19mm, im no mechanic but the 4hour time estimate to rebuild 2 calipers, or even just replace them with new seems excessive. it took me less than 2 hours to rebuild the fronts and that was from floor jack out to floor jack put away. i think my chick even called a couple of time asking if i need a pumping....

another bit, if you get waynes book and the bently manuel you can study up on a task before taking it to a wrench. information is power and you knowing what the guys is talking about impowers YOU. i will consult both books before undertaking a project. sometimes i see that it needs to be taken to a pro, other times going over the process i know i can do it. just my 2cents

concentric · 11-25-2003, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtfastbear
It is funny the relationship that people have with their mechanics... I'm the same way sometimes - I don't want to question them to show distrust since they are the experts. HOWEVER! It is YOUR money and YOU are the customer. You have absolutely positively every right to ask to see the "damage" and to ask about alternatives. If he's the kind of mechanic you want, he'll gladly talk you through the options and explain why replacing a piston or two or rebuilding is not an option here.

Definitely ask.

I agree. Any mechanic that really values customers will be willing to hear and respond to the needs and inquiries brought to them. I always ask my mechanics questions about what they are doing to my car and why they are doing it. Not because I distrust them, but because it's cool to learn more about cars. If you establish a relationship as an enthusiast and a friendly person, most professional service people will be more than willing to explain their rationale and/or listen to alternative strategies for solving problems.

JCM

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

When brake fluid isn't changed regularly(every 2 years at most in a normal climate) the water absorbed by the fluid will collect in the lowest part of the sysyem causing the caliper pistons/walls to corrode. They can be rebuilt by a place like White Post restorations(fairly expensive) but why bother?

I would skip the s/s lines unless you inspect them regularly, and get a set of Carrera front calipers & rotors. There are lots of good pad choices, Mintex is as good as any other for your purposes.

JonT · 11-25-2003, 12:24 PM

I appreciate all the responses--you guys are good! Anyway I asked about the caliper more specifically and he said there is corrosion that is causing the caliper to leak along the piston seal and didnt look rebuildable. The other front caliper was rebuilt this spring and is not leaking and the master cylinder is fine as well. Hope I'm rephrasing this correctly. He offered to try and find a used caliper for me and we will go ahead with the other changes including mintex ctech pads, ss brakelines, clean up rotors, remove dust shield.