Help! What clutch parts do I need?

ohecht · 12-02-2003, 09:13 PM

OK, the engine drop went smoothly solo with the ATV jack and a pallet, but I am confused about what happened to my clutch in the first place and what parts I need. The budget doesn't support replacing the clutch itself if it is OK, as much as I hate to risk doing this again soon.

The car made a weird whining noise for a few minutes and then the clutch pedal went to the floor suddenly in first gear, but I was able to crawl home and the actual hold of the clutch itself felt fine during that drive, it was just permanently engaged.

The cable and pedal cluster were fine, so I dropped the engine expecting to find the fork that moves the throwout bearing had cracked.

The fork is fine, but it looks like the TO bearing itself disintegrated. It was in the fork with some spacers in the first photo hanging loosely on the transmission input shaft.

Another spacer type part was lying loose on the other side of the pressure plate (second picture). Does this happen often? How did the one spacer get on the other side of the pressure plate?

Can I just replace the TO bearing (and the fork?) As I mentioned, the action and holding power of the clutch felt fine righ up until it became permanently engaged.

Please help me get the right parts on the way from Pelican!

Thanks in advance,

Olivier

PS, the ATV jack and pallet worked great for the drop, although I had to get the bumper up to about 40 inches to clear. putting it back may be another story, though!

ChrisL · 12-03-2003, 03:53 AM

The throw out bearing is attached to the pressure plate by a set of rings and clips. Which go where are shown pretty clearly in the Bentley manual. You should be able to see which might end up inside the pressure plate if it came apart. All of those rings and clips come with a new throw out bearing, so if you get a new one (which it sounds like you need at a minimum), you're covered.

Have you taken the pressure plate off the flywheel to inspect the wear surfaces?

Chris.

ohecht · 12-03-2003, 04:10 AM

No, I wil inspect behind the PP today. I was beat after grinding off the one seized nut holding the engine and trans together.

I though that's what might have happened, since the symptom was basically a disconnect somewhere between the pedal and the PP.

I am surprised that the loose ring behind the PP did not make any noise or cause any drivability issues even for the 1 mile limp home.

Should I look on the flywheel for the wea pattern?

ChrisL · 12-03-2003, 04:43 AM

See how close to the rivets on the clutch plate you are. When I did mine, it was just down to the rivets and they were just starting to make grooves in the pressure plate and flywheel. Obviously, I needed a new pressure plate and to have the flywheel resurfaced.

Chris.

buttjoint · 12-03-2003, 04:46 AM

Yep. Your T/O bearing went south. Look at your flywheel and see if it has any cracks or other damage. Also check out the clutch disk.

RoninLB · 12-03-2003, 04:50 AM

maybe ask an experienced eye for help on what you must have. Otherwise full disc, PP, throw out brg, pilot brg, new PP bolts, some grease, clutch cable, maybe a tranny seal, and hopefully Not a new flywheel and $500 should get you rolling.
If your budget is very tight I have a throw out brg in very good shape I could send you.
good luck.......Ron

ohecht · 12-03-2003, 04:57 AM

Thanks for the offer, Ronin, but I am OK replacing parts if they are worn, I just can't afford the luxury right now to replace the disk if it still has a significant number of miles in it. Too many other competing projects!

Thanks for the tips on the rivets and wear indications, I will pull of the PP tonight to inspect everything.

Chris, did you keep the same clutch disk after finding the wear that far in relation to the rivets and the flywheel?

Olivier

ChrisL · 12-03-2003, 12:39 PM

No, I replaced the pressure plate, throw out bearing, clutch disk, pilot bearing and flywheel seal -- the whole nine. If you can resurface your flywheel, as Ron states, $500 and your in great shape.

Chris.

john walker's workshop · 12-03-2003, 03:17 PM

also check inside the p/plate fingers where the T/O bearing ring used to live. if it's all galled up, that would be another reason to replace the part. this can happen from the disc being thin, which increases the release effort. thin discs also cause a hard clutch pedal operation, and broken pedal hardware. this is also caused by the bad habit of keeping the pedal depressed at stops for long periods of time.

ohecht · 12-03-2003, 03:58 PM

I do have that bad habit, and the helper spring broke about 3 months ago, so I may indeed have a thin disk. Are there established wear limits, or just the comparison to the rivet height?

Olivier

john walker's workshop · 12-03-2003, 04:33 PM

rivet height is what i look for. if they're at, or barely below the surface of the disc, it's time.

marcesq · marcesq's Garage

O:

When you intall the engine position the engine/tranny under the car, and lower the car over the engine so that you can use the lifting range of the jack to position the engine in the car. Using 2 people with 2 floor jacks makes the lowering of the car much easier.

Good luck and let us know if you need any help.

ohecht · 12-03-2003, 09:49 PM

Here are the pictures, and it looks to me like the clutch is pretty worn. There is also a very slight groove going around the flywheel circumference, possibly from the loose lock ring during the 1-mile drive home.

Can anyone tell me the type and size tool to remove the flywheel bolts?

I also noticed that the clutch and flywheel are much more worn on the outer edges than the middle, sort of like a ramp up to the center of each.

Olivier

ohecht · 12-03-2003, 10:03 PM

Thanks for the offer, Marc. I think I will be OK, and I have two jacks plus the ATV jack. I put a pallet on the ATV jack and a 2x8 ontop of that lengthwise to support the transmission with one of the small jacks under that. The entire assembly lowered perfectly and was then easy to wheel around and is still stable enough to work on. The hardest part was jacking up the car high enough to get it out without removing the bumper and because of the height the jack and pallet added.

Olivier

ohecht · 12-03-2003, 10:04 PM

What is the general consensus between the OEM Sachs clutch and the Sachs poer clutch for mostly street driving, especially regarding longevity? I never had any complaints about the stock clutch, but I wonder if I am missing something with the power clutch.

Olivier

ChrisL · 12-04-2003, 01:29 AM

I put in the stock clutch, but I was looking for light and smooth action. You can find the tool for the flywheel bolts at Autozone. They call it something odd like an 'internal wrench', but the more common name is 'triple square'. They have a set of four for like $14. You can also get it from Snap-on.

Chris.

buttjoint · 12-04-2003, 04:21 AM

A piece of 3/4 plywood, cut to the shape of the bottom of the engine and trans eliminates some of the higth issues , and you don't have to jack the car so high.

ohecht · 12-04-2003, 06:23 AM

I may try that next time. Those last 3 or 4 inches were pretty scary.

Olivier

john walker's workshop · 12-04-2003, 07:05 AM

i wouldn't reuse that pressure plate. and have the flywheel machined, or you may end up with a chatter.

Doug Zielke · 12-04-2003, 07:11 AM

Nice shots of a well-toasted clutch!
I didn't have anything like that in the Mayhem Files.
Thank you for sharing, Olivier.