Swing (bannana) arm bushings: OEM or ? (and other questions).

[Jdub]

Hello all:

I now have all of the rear suspension, from t-bars to swing arms, on the garage floor for refurbish and reinstallation. If you guys would be so kind, here are my questions...

= What bushings should I use in my rear swing arm? OEM, poly, or something else?

= Where are the Shorr washers I hear about - the only ones I saw were on the torsion arm plate, under the adjusters (none on the CV bolts?).

= What grease is recommended for the CV joints? Use same in axle stub splines?

This 'board has been a huge help, and based on your recommendations I will go ahead and replace the rear bearings, swing arm bushings, torsion plate bushings (Neatrix), and shocks. I will also replace the CV joint 6mm allens bolts, gaskets, and regrease the joints.

Many thanks in advance for your suggestions!

John
'78SCTarga

[dickster]

john

i think you have the choice of oe (which i would do) or mono balls?

polys are no good for that application.

any high temp bearing type grease for the cv joints...

[Jdub]

But how do you get the OEM ones in there? Isn't there some sort of metal sleeve that you cannot mess with? Sort of a "touch this and you can't go back" thing?

John

[dickster]

john

i believe that you need a press for the job - usually!

someone else posted on this recently and managed to do it ok by heating the old ones up - the arm stayed sufficiently hot to get the new ones in before the arm cooled!

[kstylianos]

John,

The OEM bushings are easily removed and installed w/o a press. You can remove the inner metal sleeve and rubber with a screwdriver as a pry, leaving the outer metal sleeve in the arm. A suitable drift and hammer, tapping from the inside out, will remove those metal sleeves. When you are done, there should be nothing left in the bushing holes....just the Al. of the trailing arm showing.

Place the new OEM bushings in the trailing arm, and use the trailing arm nut/bolt to squeeze them back into place.

Heat not needed!!

[Jdub]

Ah, I see that post now.

I am going to go OEM on this. My plan is to drive out the center metal tube, the rubber, then bathe the arm area in heat using a propane torch, driving the metal outer sleeve carefully using a pin tool or similar.

Sound like a plan? I liked the hacksaw through the outer metal sheath idea to relieve stress and cave in the metal sheath.

I will probably cool the new bushings and gently heat the arms a second time for the install of fresh bushings. Comments appreciated!

John

[dickster]

charlie

is it that easy? with the arm in place?

i've heard many different opinions on this.

[kstylianos]

Oh....didnt know the arms were still attached to the spring plates. I had the arms off the car....much easier to work with. It will be tricky to remove the inner sleeves w/o much working room. Maybe heat and a hack saw are needed in this case.

BTW: Don't even think of removing the outer sleeve from the new bushings and try to press the rubber into the old sleeves that are still in the trailing arm.......ain't no way. Sleeve removal from trailing arm is necessary.

[Jdub]

Charlie:

No, everything is out and on the garage floor. Thanks mightily for the spiritual lift - I am fearful of screwing this up!

I'd love to know if the axle shaft bolts use the shorr washers - anyone out there know this?

Many thanks!
John

[kstylianos]

No, everything is out and on the garage floor.

Good....should not be a big deal then.

Don't know about the schorr washers......can't remember to be honest. Rear wheel bearing R&R is best left the the pro's IMHO. I had a b!tch of a time rigging up a suitable press out of hardware store items, etc. I eventaully rigged something up that work pretty well on one side, but the the bearing on the other started crooked and became stuck . Eventaully took the trailing arm to the shop and had them fix/do it right. About 30 minutes and no headaches. BTW: The one bearing that I thought went well, still had few mm before it sat flush. Nothing like using the proper tool in this case. Yes, I used the heat/freeze method.

Good luck.......

[Jdub]

Many thanks Charlie: John Walker will be doing the R&R on the bearings so I am in good hands!

John

[Jdub]

Another question if I might: Are the self-locking (that is, slotted) nuts used to bolt the swing arm to the torsion bar-mounted brackets a one-time only item?

These bolt types, also found on the wedge pin at the balljoint-to-strut, have a small cut at the corners that bears down when enough torque is put to the nut/bolt combination. I guess I am pretty sure they ought to be replaced, but wanted to ask here.

Many thanks guys!
John

EDIT: The nut is item #6 at http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911_Parts/1974-75/5-1.JPG

[KTL]

John,

The #6 nut can be reused depending on what type of locknut it is. For example the conical/oval deformed thread lock nuts are reusable- to a point. After a number of install------->removal applications, the nuts will not be as "locky" feeling. But they still can be reused

Look at the different kinds of locknuts here in this table:



Also, #21 in the diagram is the Schnorr washer. I believe the correct type is the washer with a serrated top (top is where the bolt or screw head contacts the washer). Warren has referenced these washers many times. The second topic is a good one!

Axle (CV) bolts

I have a question about CV Joint bolts

Funny thing is, the Schnorr/lock washer is only listed for the M10 screws that connect the axle shaft to the trans. output flange. If the 78 SC has M8 screws, no washer was spec'd. So, if you have 4-bolt CV's (M10 screws) you need the washers. 6-bolt CV's (M8 screws) don't spec. the washers. My 87 has 6-bolt M8 CV's which do not use the washers. Haven't come loose yet (torqued to 60 lb-ft)

The bushing choice seems to be OEM rubber blocs or the monoball cartridges. Racers (like SmartRacing I believe) say that the poly banana inserts bind.

Make sure to use a heavy duty EP grease for the CV joints. The stuff that comes with the boot repair kits (last time I bought them) is GKN EP grease. The axle stub splines are lubed with copper antiseize goop on my car.

[Jdub]

Kevin:

That is great information. I am going to assume that I can reuse these nuts after all. Many thanks!

I checked both links to the threads provided and I also had no Schnorr washers and also did not have any half-circle collars joining pairs of bolts. That seems strange...

John

John

[84toy]

Careful when you install those OEM bushings. My experience was that you can not just put each bushing in and use a bolt to tighten the two bushings together or a press. There is an inner sleeve on both bushings and when you try to press the two bushings in the arm, the inside sleeves will hit each other, the rubber collapses and prevents the OUTSIDE part from seating all the way in to the arm. I suspect a few people never got there bushings seated all the way. If you press one in all the way, when you push the other one in, support the arm with a socket or pipe that is larger than the outside of the first bushing or it won't seat all the way. When you do it this way it allows the first bushing to bulge out and let's the second bushing seat. Sounds weird but it will make sense when you start to do it.. Good luck

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by 84toy
Careful when you install those OEM bushings.

I remember the install being a PIA.. what worried me at the time was the relative weakness of the end, once I removed the old one, to what I figured. I remember a fine line between a good install and damage. I used a 3lb baby sledge

[Jdub]

I am measuring exactly 5.5cm for the ID of the bracket at the torsion tube, inside surface to inside surface. I'll do my best to honor that figure when I press these in.

At first, I thought the bushings were in pretty good shape, but putting a pin tool into the inner tube, I was able to wrench the bushing around more than I thought it ought to move. So they are worn after all.

John

John

[84toy]

There is a lip on the inner metal part of the bushing that presses into the aluminum. Just make sure that lip presses all the way to the aluminum arm on both bushings