Steve Wong Chip Installed
 

Finally got around to installing my Steve Wong chip. The job itself was relatively simple, it took about 45 minutes, as I had to take the seat out.

It fired up straight away and settled to an idle of about 900 may need adjusting.

Interestingly I removed an old performance chip - mo markings apart from a clear bubble in the centre of the chip. Any ideas what this maye be?

I immediately noticed that it was much smoother at idle. The change in performance was not as big as I had hoped for, due to the existence of the other performance chip, but there was still some definite improvement in power.

The big wins are the much smoother application of power, an increase in low down torque and around town drive-ability. When pushed it no longer backfires on a trailing throttle (YEAH) and the new increased limit of 6850 is fantastic.

I am impressed in the smoother application of power and pick up from low revs even in third.

Thanks Steve a great product - I can't wait until my longer drive in the morning.

I've got mine waiting patiently to be installed, once she comes back from a new windshield and lowering. I've got a Euro pre muff and Dansk sport muffler waiting to go on as well. Sounds great DJB, I'll post and compare to my stock 85 TL Coupe.

Mike

I had the opportunity to call 911 Chips yesterday and found myself talking with Steve Wong. What a great guy to speak with. He answered all my questions about the chip I ordered for my 85, and then the conversation turned to other Porsche related items. Mr. Wong is sincerely interested in his customer's satisfaction. I would recommend Steve to anyone needing his type of product.

Thanks again Steve

Larry

I too had the experience of talking With Steve when I ordered mine. Guy had a hell of a cold and still impressed me enough to buy one to repace the current autority chip. I haven,t had time to install and check results but thats the goal for Saturday and I'll report my findings.

Keith Epperly

I had one of those early chips with the window also. I think I got it from Power Haus, Arizona about 5 1/2 years ago . It is a very good custom chip! They just don't burn them anymore, they use Autothority. I tried quite a number of other chips and until Steve started marketing his chips the old Power Haus chip was IMHO the best for my '87, very strong mid-range and super in the high-end.

I hope to meet Steve Wong in about three weeks when the next billing cycle of my Visa card come around ;) Too many Xmas charges on this cycle:( Seriously, though I posted a couple of questions to him, and on this board, and Steve has been very helpful trying to figure out what kind of DME setup my ba$tard ROW 84 Targa has for an emissions control system. SmileWavy

I have an 84 cab,
anyone have any idea on how much a chip for this would cost and what it would do to my stock cab??

Kudos to Steve Wong and his chip. Just put the chip in my 87, definitely more responsive, pulls great in all gears. And this is before the pre-muffler and Sport Muffler go on. Steve is also great with customer service, ask a question and get a quick response. Pleasure to do business with. Best performance mod I made to the car. Steve, keep up the good work!

For info on Steve's chips go to his website, www.911chips.com

When considering a performance chip check out these websites;

www.autothority.com
www.giac.com
www.weltmeister.com
www.upsolute.com
www.andial.com

For a very good insight about how effective performance chips really are,
go to the the Andial (Porsche Factory Racing - USA) website (www.andial.com)
on the FAQ page and read Question 2. Their discussion of performance chips
is very robust and thorough. They answer many issues and refute most of the
claims being made by performance chip suppliers.

Andial represents Porsche in the USA for racing and provides engines for
all key USA races, e.g. Daytona, and helps with Le Mans cars. They know
Porsches!

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

URL correction: GIAC - (www.giacusa.com)

Loren
'88 3.2

thanks,
I'll try it tomorrow,
... today, x-mas shopping w/ the wife and kids.

Re: Steve Wong Chip Installed
 

Aww c'mon that backfiring sound wasn't so bad. I gather the roof is completely fixed now?

Got my new S Wong chip installed, replacing my Autothority
chip and now I have a surgeing motor at idle from 950 to 1200 rpm. Anyon else have this problem or know of a fix? I have always been proud of my dead still idle in my 87 carrera and
now its embarassing to drive. The Wong chip feels slightly
smoother but I stumped at the surgeing.

Keith Epperly 87 slant nose wide body carrera cabriolet

Keith,

Check the idle stabil valve just back of your fan. My 3.2 did the same thing before I replaced the valve.

Ran with one of Steve's chips in my car for over 2 years and loved it! Really nice guy and great product!

JoeA

Chip Nazi showed up again...

The idle valve should not be a problem, the result of just a chip change.
Put the old chip back in and see if the problem goes away. Don't start
trying to fix problems that aren't really there by replacing good parts.

The chip has either made the mixture too rich or the timing is too advanced.
Like the saying goes; "There's no free rides in life." The "extra" power (?)
now comes with a driveability price.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Chip Nazi, I went ahead and read the FAQ #2 on the Andial site. If what they say is true, then they make a very good agrument for Steve's chips. Steve claim's a modest 6-8% gain from 2000 rpm to redline, providing slight changes to each chip he offers based on the owners particular configuration of exhaust, intake, or other mods. Most like myself are probably combining his chip with other mods, something that goes hand in hand with the engine management software. Sounds like a better deal than using another chip supplier who offers 1 chip.

And if you reread section 2 of FAQ #2 it will say this:

"The optimum air to fuel ratio is 14 lbs. of air to each lb. of fuel. Obviously, the challenge is to maintain this ratio consistently throughout the power curve as the volume of airflow increases."

So then we could deduce that it makes little sense to remove the oxygen sensor from the DME feedback loop when not at full throttle, something that you have frequently advocated doing before using a performance chip...

***edited for spelling error

The optimum fuel air ratio is less than 14 for max torque. Any literature you
read will indicate this. Andial's intent was to indicate that excessive fuel
which results in a air/fuel ratio WAY less than 14 has no value.

It's always difficult for some people to accept the facts especially when
they've possibly wasted their money. As I've said before, if it makes
you feel good, then be happy with your purchase. There are many
other Porsche owners who value reality.

Speaking of the O2 sensor, check your CO with the "chip" and you
might find that it no longer has an effect. Some chip users have
indicated that their engine no longer "hunts" at idle. All 3.2s and
SCs have a about a 50 rpm swing at idle when the DME reaches
the two O2 limit points. The chip probably has the O2 disabled
to get the better throttle response.

You guys really don't need to name call. Why not try and present some
logical rebutal in the future? I've yet to see any from anyone.

As the saying goes; "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't
make him drink."

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Keith,

If cleaning the Idle Stabilization Valve doesn't help, then you must adjust the idle manually.

Assuming your CO% is good (per the Porsche repair manual), you adjust the idle by disabling the ISV and then adjust the base idle screw on the bottom of the throttle body. CW reduces idle speed, CCW increases. To disable the ISV, you need to jumper the socket in the electric panel on the left side of the engine bay. The socket is a round one with electrical pins in it, located at the front of the elec. panel. According to John Walker, a round black relay from the fuse panel in the front trunk is the perfect fit and works to jumper the ISV. Or, you can make your own jumper wire and connect the two necessary pins (referred to as pins "B" and "C" in the Porsche manual) in the socket. These pins being @ 1 o'clock and 6 o'clock on the socket.

With engine at operating temp., bridge pins B & C and set the idle to the desired 880 rpm spec. for your 87 3.2. Then remove the bridge and see how the idle responds. After you enable the ISV again, the idle will most likely change (mine dropped). The dash tach is not 100% accurate so that could be an issue. But, according to JW, the trick is to keep checking the idle by disabling ISV, setting the idle, and enabling the ISV until the idle doesn't change when you have the ISV disabled or not.

This procedure should solve your idle surging, assuming everything else is in proper working order. Others have recommended adjusting the idle by simply adjusting the idle to the desired value when the engine is at operating temp. I tried this and it didn't work for me. I got a surging idle doing that, and man is it annoying when it surges!!! So do it right and disable/enable the ISV when adjusting the idle speed.

Hi Keith - you idle may be surging because you will need to turn down the idle at the throttle body, as instructed on page 3 of the installation instructions. In recent mappings, the idle ignition timing has been raised on the chips for the 87-89 Carreras from the stock spec of 3.5 degrees to approximately 6.8 degrees to provide a smoother engagement of the clutch off a stop, in other words, less gas is needed than stock to engage the clutch, saving wear on the disk and easier in stop and go traffic. Raising the idle timing has the effect of increasing making the idle more efficient, therefore the idle speed automatically goes up. Over the past few months, back to back testing between using the stock ignition timing vs. raising the idle a little were compared by several users, and always, owners preferred the advanced idle timing at the sacrafice of spending a couple of minutes of turning the idle down a the throttle body. It was a difficult decision for me, as I knew questions and issues like this would arise, but in the end everyone convinced me otherwise. However, I may go back to stock if it continues to be an issue. If idle speed adjustment does not fix your surge, let me know and I will swap you out with the chip with stock idle timing.\

BTW all, from day 1 I have never disabled the O2 sensor function in any of my chips, and that is a fact. Nice hearing from you all! SmileWavy


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1071975656.gif

Oops!

Forgot to mention that I am a satisfied SteveW chip user as well. Led me to water and I drank............ Refreshing too. :p

Thanks Steve!

Hmmm, I didn't know I issued an open invitation to the Chip Nazi to get involved my success. All I can say Loren is get you bum to Sydney, put it in the drivers seat and we can happily swap the chips all day to PROVE the difference.

Langers the backfiring was embarrassing - I was scared the pants of this little old lady - I was so embarrassed I stopped to check she was OK.

Yes the roof is fantastic now. My new 930 brakes are been shot peened and powder coated this week, ready for the new year. Other projects are installation of some magnecore leads, fan painting and twin headlight relays.

Fun holidays !!!

To Steve W. and Kevin,
Thanks for your imput and I will be at it again on Sunday and report the results. I in no way wish to dishearten anyone
thinking of buying Steve's chip he is the best and when not at idle I can tell that I have a smoother running Carrera.

Keith Epperly 87 slant nose turbo look Carrera cabriolet

It's good to now that Andial has explained their intent to Lorenfb so none of us are confused.

KTL,
How do you clean the Idle Stabilization Valve?

Keith Epperly

Keith,

Just unplug it's elec. connector and unscrew the clamps on the two rubber hoses attached to it. Unbolt it from the clamps holding it to the throttle housing and remove.

Shoot some elec. parts cleaner in there to clean out the oily goo and drain it out. That's it!

Some use carb cleaner, but I feel safer using the stuff that says "Electrical Parts Cleaner" on the can. Don't know if there's really any difference or not. Both of them are found pretty much right next to each other on the shelf at the local parts store, along with the brake parts cleaner.

Thanks Keith, let us know. If it doesn't work, well back to stock I will go.

Cleaned the Idle Stabilizer Valve, minor carbon build up on the outboard side. Went through the process of setting the idle and
now it just surges part of the time instead of constantly. Steve ?
am I the first one with the new mapping?

Keith

Keith - there are probably about at least 30 or 40 other guys with the new idle ignition mapping. This was tried out by a few users about a year ago. Very early on, I think Wavey on this board after running with the new timing since the beginning of this year, and later stuck in another chip with the stock timing, was pretty disappointed in it after being used to the new setup. A very few 84-86 users had their idle timing updated from the 84-86 spec of -2.5 degrees to the 87-89 spec of +3.5 degrees. It was tested over the course of the past year, and was implemented just these past few weeks. Idle has always been rock solid and never been an issue previous to this change. It seems like about 80% don't need to do any idle readjustment after installation, but about 20% do - it's kind of a factor of the age of the ISV and maybe where the idle air mixture is set currently in the AFM. But since even 5% with problems is too much, I think I will start programming everything back to stock. I'll send you a chip reset with the stock idle timing. That should take care of everything. If anyone else has these issue, please email me.

One of the things we were trying to improve was the stability of the ISV on deceleration. As the valve wears, it has difficulty catching up and stabilizing the idle at 880. This is evidenced by older cars where the idle would drop as low as 500 rpm when the throttle is released, such as with the AC on, before jumping back up. A big part of this comes from the fuel cutoff in the DME software, which on deceleration by default cuts off fuel to the injectors until the the rpms drop to about 1250 rpm, when the injectors come back on. The primary purpose of this cutoff is for smog reasons and to save on fuel, but leads to idle studder as cars age. A couple of things we are testing right now is the FRWilk method of raising the cutoff to 2000 rpm, which eliminates the idle studder that some 944s experience. One interesting thing we found was eliminating the fuel cutoff completely provided a better transition from "push to pull" of the throttle for much better driveability and keeps the engine warm on long downhill decents, but that cancels out the fuel efficiency advantage of our part throttle ignition maps. Another method that is under testing is not raising the idle timing at all, but actually reshaping the curves of the idle map and some of the temperature maps to make the idle even more rock solid than stock original, without even touching the fuel cutoff values.

The Porsche DME has NO problems when using properly programmed
chips. Some Porsches experience an "undershoot" when returning
to idle after de-acceleration. This usually results when the idle is too
high, i.e. the air screw in the throttlle body is too far out.

The problem is further accentuated when the timing is advanced
too much as occurs on some performance chips. Those that have
this problem should not be wasting their time nor money trying
to solve the problem by attempting repairs to other parts of the
Porsche DME system. The source of problem, the performance chip,
needs to be removed and replaced. Furthermore, NONE of the
Porsche DME system needs a redesign. Many 3.2 owners are
and have been without compliants with the stock DME system.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

The Chip can play an important role in this "undershoot when returning to idle" issue.

I spent a lot of time and effort trying to rectify this problem on my 3.2, the symptoms showed up mostly when the car was cold. I am pleased that the Steve Wong chip has fixed this annoying problem - which in hindsight must have been caused by the old performance chip.

I think what you mean to say is the stock 20 year old program factory chip. Correct?

That is total baloney, many have wished for improvements and Porsche has kept pace with that. If your statement were true, Motronic would have never been improved upon- software and hardware on-board, and nobody would have ever wasted time trying to sell a chip. It was one of the first real electronic fuel injection systems...but wait its perfect right?...no knock sensor...no check engine light...no data recording ability...no hammer interrogation port...any of that could have saved me a lot of time when my speed sensor was misadjusted...

I'd love to see clean dyno runs too on brand new engines with various components tolerance matched on 2 individually matched dynos during a solar eclipse at sea level when the planets are all aligned. But it ain't gonna happen. What is your motivation to these arguments? I suspect these chips cause you trouble in diagnosing a DME related problem when they're sent into your shop? Y/N? If you keep this up people will send them straight to Programma or someone else who has a slight dose of reality...

I had a stock DME system. While driving when cold to warm it would hunt to find the right RPM, idle,2000,5000 you pick it, it would hunt. Not extreme but just an anoyance. After warm up it would still be there alittle. This was not the O2 sensor hunt when the O2 sensor is going bad. I also had a slight bog or hesitation right off of idle always. There aways felt like a lag to get up in the power band. All stock.
I wanted more.
Then I purchased the Steve Wong chip. No more hunting, no more bog/ hesitation and the thing pulls from down low all the into the poweband up to 6850. The tires get loose in the meat of the power say 4000 to 6000 in first. Dead smooth idle. This was before the cat by pass was done. Now it feels even easier to pull up through the revs. Dead smooth idle, dead smooth at any RPM this thing pulls and is so smooth. Just what I wanted. Now if I could get my big 2.5L 914-4 to run this smooth and pull as long.
Thanks for reading
Thank you to Steve works great I am Very Happy, Mark

Who are these chip haters? and why do the hate the Steve Wong chips?

Any one have a Dansk 84 mm sport muffler? This will finish off my long list of mods to my 911.

Steve W Chip
Cat bypass
Thats it. Mark

Mike Wong(no relation) of San Marino, CA just sent me some informal test results he did with his G-tech on his completely stock 88 Carrera - just tuned at by Tyson at TRE Motorsports about a 1000 miles (5 months) ago. He was comparing the stock 88 chip vs. the recent version that has been out with the modified idle. Thought I'd pass it along. YMMV, the planets were not aligned etc ....... Let the flaming begin - I've got my asbestos suit on.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/vuur.gif


hi steve,
just got done with making some runs comparing stock car with stock chip vs.
yr chip. made 6-7 runs each on the same stretch of road. i chose to
compare horsepower only as 0-60 times is just too hard to replicate and i
don't want to abuse my clutch so much. the horsepower numbers were obtained
from wot in second gear till the rev limiter kicked in. i tried to control
the other variables as much as possible such as the amount of gas in the
tank (filled up b4 each set of runs), and external temp was within 3
degrees. the g-tech was set with the vehicle wt as 3000 pounds and kept
constant in its position and setting for each run. i eliminated the highest
and lowest runs from each set and obtained the following avg horsepower:
stock chip: 174.75 your chip: 188.25! and as i said before, not only
does it show better numbers, it makes the car so much more lively and fun to
drive throughout the rpm range which is what really counts for me. it's
idling a bit higher but is very smooth, no hunting and no pinging that i can
tell so far. the fabspeed premuffler is going on later and i'll make more
runs in the next two days when i can get the external temp to cooperate.
btw, please feel free to share any of this info with anyone. take care,
mike

Yea fun holidays indeed. You've gotta get that car of yours over here to New Zealand for a holiday. GREAT roads. Not just twisty, windy roads but open, flowing, fast ones in the countryside without a single Police officer in sight. Not much traffic either, even in holiday season. Gotta watch the sun though...that hole in the ozone layer is murder on the skin!

Cheers from the land of the nervous sheep!

Klaus, I was skiing NZ last year and went for a long drive round the South Island - it was the most fantastic country side (as seen in Lord of the Rings) apart from the fact that i was driving a Toyota Echo. - I hope the weather is good- watch out for those Hobbits and don't make the sheep any more nervous.

Sounds like Mike Wong has provided some pretty solid evidence to back up our many seat of the pants evaluations.

Great weather over here at the moment (in Wellington), certainly a lot more comfortable than what Sydney has had during the past week! There's a LOTR figurine staring at me as I write this message...freaky...

Edit: just looked outside and it's raining. Dammit! Spoke too soon...