I have to agree with you. Case in point.
Not one intelligent comment in the thread!

I assume you realize that if you make such a blanket statement you are including yourself, because you are contributing to this thread as well. I will further assume that you don't really mean what you posted, but rather you feel overwhelmed in that it appears you are in an extreme minority with your views. But they are your views, and we should all respect that. I for one don't know you and have never personally attacked you, and I won't start now. Intelligence is sometimes in the eye of the beholder, in your case it appears that because you believe in your statements so adamantly, you think you are the only one with intelligence. Your anger seems to be clouding your judgment, and I think if you step back, you will realize that it is not lack of intelligence, but rather just a different point of view. I think the two sides should just agree to disagree and go their separate ways.

It's not a point of view. We now have the facts before us.
They're from a reputable source (Bruce Anderson in the
Excellence Magazine). Is it that difficult to read and understand
data presented in a tabular form? This data should resolve issue.

As in many situations in life, some people can't accept
the facts when they are contrary to their belief systems.

First time writing on this board ! But i`ve been reading for the past year or so.

Lorenfb.
Can you please explain to me why is it that my -86 Carrera, (930/20 RoW) runs perfect without any knock on european gas with an octane number RON 95, (US 91 i believe) The original handbook clearly states to use 98 (US 93 i believe) ?? We are quite a few of us that has been running this gas for several years now, with tens of thousands kilometers. This without any problem.
I had a top-end job performed last summer due to worn out inlet valve guides/valves at 131 k km. This after driving some 30 k kilometers on 95 and there was no sign of any problems at all that in any way could be caused by using a lower octane rating than that Porsche prescribes. I even DE`s my car 2- 3 times a year.

It resolves the issue regarding the chips that BA has listed in his table. I dont think that there is any disagreement. I also dont recall seeing the chip most of us have first hand experience with listed. I dont believe it would be prudent to say that chips that have not been tested by BA provide no value.

There are many reputable sources out there, and Bruce is definitely one of them. I look at all the reputable sources and try to summarize the data into one conclusion. That is exactly what I have done prior to my posting on this subject.

I completely agree with you as far as acceptance of contrary beliefs. I think you, yourself are an example of your point. This is not necessarily a flaw, but may be viewed as someone who has very strong convictions, which I think you do have. I say it is great that you are true to your own beliefs.

As I've said before, there's no "unfound" areas in the DME
which can be "harvested" for a performance gain as has been
exemplified by the BA data and 15 years of effort by many other
chip guys. It's just that the many who have purchased a recent chip
would have experienced the same "feelings" with the other chips
tested by BA. As the data show, there are LITTLE peaks, but overall
insignificant performance gains.

Scott,

You know, I have been watching the used classified on this BB for about a month waiting for a "good" used pre muff and sport exhaust. With the exception of one nice Dansk 1/2 sport that I missed because I hemmed and hawed too much, there really hasn't been any nice hardware that I would want to buy.

I think that if you want to save a little money by buying used equipment, it's a prudent investment if the item purchased won't wear out the day after you install it! With anything that moves, or sees an exhaust stream, remaining life is a SWAG. In particular, with mufflers. Unless the muffler is relatively new, you don't know what you are buying. It may be cheap, but may be a pig in a poke.

I'm not inferring here, that any of the posters to this board would falsify any statements as to the condition of any used gear they are selling in order to make the sale. The better truth is that there really isn't any good way to inspect a used muffler or used brake calipers without disecting them (to the best of my knowledge).

So, other than the classifieds on this BB and on the Rennlist BB, where would you suggest that I look for the pre muff and a good sport muff? In particular, I am looking for a SS Dansk sport, either a 1/2 or a 1/1 for my 89 Carerra. I'm frustrated.

Regards.

Ebay

The pot calling the kettle black. Anyone reading the comments in this thread, including you, Loren, would see that, regardless of their "intelligence", the vast majority do not contain any personal attacks. I have defended your right to present your opinion when others have personally attacked you. Your belief that you are right doesn't justify the above post. But although you insult and basically lie about me (and others) with that post, it is useful in that it mirrors and makes obvious your flawed approach to chip comments you disagree with and your criticism of the people who post them. In both cases, you are unable to see anything that contradicts your personal belief of what is real, which is bad enough, but you also take it a step further by seeing (and saying) things that are not real. Which makes you just like those of us who are hallucinating on Steve W chips.
To sum up, it's a waste of time to argue with you, so I won't do it anymore. I will continue to advise people to try the Steve Wong chip with its money-back guarantee, and I hope you won't subject me to personal attacks when I do so.

Getting back to the drilled out air boxes, is it not possible that water entry(heavy rain showers) into intake could be a concern?

In particular I am thinking of the Fabspeed option(for looks and tidiness) which would be even more "open" to water.

Is this a valid concern? Thanks.

Ernie:

You have valid points about quality of purchases and timing. I have been fortunate to have some good Pelicans that live nearby and have been lucky to pick up some good used parts from them and visa versa. It really helps if you know whom you are dealing with and that they are reputable. I guess I would recommend first that you get involved locally and see what is available around your area.

E-bay is an option, but be careful. Check the sellers rating and read the comments.

As far as the Pelican classifieds, it does sometimes take a while for the exact part you are looking for to come up. I have also found that once it comes up, you may have to act quickly, otherwise someone else will snatch it up. I would suggest that you post a WTB ad. Ideally, you should be the first in line for all the respondents, that is, unless your thread is hijacked.

Lorenfb !
I think you have great knowlegde when it comes to Motronic but are you aware of what you are stating ?
You have made your point about chips in general, but you can`t , as you self said, compare apples to oranges.
What did Porsche do when they tweaked the US 3,2 from 207 hp to 217 ?
Change the EProm perhaps ?? The first EProm is an apple, the latter may be the orange then ?

How can you possibly assert that there is not any "harvest" in adjusting the ignition timing (the chip). For example to take use of the capabilities in a 3 points higher octane rated fuel than the lowest usable ?
This goes for the "Euro 3,2" in any case.

You have used the term B.S. and I will compare some of your statements with this term. Why are you talking so much nonsense when you clearly have some much knowledge to bring forward.


On an standard 3,2 engine, how can one adjust the ignition timing on an 930/20 in another way than through the EPROM if you want to retain some safety against pre-detonation. Across the board timing alteration at any given load/rpm most certainly will "close the envelope" and you cannot rise it significantly without going into pre-detonation at certain loads/rpms.
IMHO Tweaking the EProm is the only way to deal with this problem and since the Porsche-engineers for various reasons, so very clearly left a bit at the table ie three points of octane rating.
BTW My gas quality switch has not been set to any other setting than normal ie 0 when using 95 (91US)

Venetian.. I would think it would be a valid concern.
What I did was I purchased a used air box for 20 bucks outside part only, drilled out an artistic pattern, and kept the original untouched, for extra rainy days and for most of the summer.

Ernie,

I forgot to add one more alternative. Have your own muffler made. My muffler is a flowmaster built by a well know Pelican and owned by another well known Pelican before it made its way to me. I know Leland is fabricating his own muffler with SSI specs, but maybe he can give you some tips on building one for a stock exhaust setup.

Remember the guy in Junior High who was always trying so hard to impress everyone with his superior knowledge? And how he kept getting refuted by others who were actually smarter than him? And how he'd keep coming back with more ridiculous arguments? Ever wonder what happened to that guy?

Next time Loren type it in all caps so we really know what you think, all us car-waxing idiots are slow on the uptake.

Got those dyno sheets yet?

There's a thread on rennlist - which our own Jack Olsen has contributed to

Link

That shows different dyno numbers - same car, same set up, same day - only thing that is different is the chip. Yes, one test - but how in the he!! do you explain that Loren?

Stock
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1069584554.jpg

Performance chip
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1069583639.jpg
Jack even mentions "These numbers seem in line with reality. The headers get me some improvement over my stock 247 crank horsepower. I can't think of anything other than the chip to explain the second graph's results. It seems too much to qualify as normal dyno variations.

But let me know what you think would be a reasonable way to conduct the test, if what I did is significantly flawed. If it's practical to do, I'll do it."

Your argument Loren is invalid and illogical.

I had a concern about that. I think if you keep the snorkel you won't have a problem. Losing the snorkel is what prompted me to drill my box cover. My concern focused on the hole in the cover where the snorkel attaches. It sits right under the gap between the lid and the deck. So I taped over that hole and drilled the rest of the cover, which is completely under the deck.

Loren,

Could you expand on the "disconnect the brown wire for CA cars" comment? I have an option code which indicates my car was/is a "CA" car. I also have my most recent state inspection, which shows the car as being incredibly clean. I'm not saying I'd like to pollute more, but if there's a way to gain performance by "de-californiaizing" the car, I'm all for it.

Thanks.