PCA Club Racing, Stock Class; Can Remove Your A/C Compressor???

[reesestewww]

Must you have ur ac compressor and bracket on the car? Along with the A/C Lines? I’m getting some different opinions on this.


Thanks

R

[john_colasante]

It depends. If the car you are racing had A/C as standard for USA delivery then you need to leave the compressor in. Everything else can come out.

Examples: A 1973 911S had optional A/C for cars delivered in the USA, so it doesn't need to have it in.

On the other hand, all 1986 Carreras delivered in the USA had A/C as standard (not an option) therefore you must run that car with the compressor bolted to the bracket.

If you ask me it's kinda a stupid ruling...

[88 Club Sport]

John,
I have a '78sc with a 3.2 (204hp) putting me in F stock. I believe AC was an option in '78 so do you believe that I can run without the AC.

An after mkt AC was added to the car sometime in it's life and if I can delete it, I may.
Thanks,

[reesestewww]

Originally posted by john_colasante
It depends. If the car you are racing had A/C as standard for USA delivery then you need to leave the compressor in. Everything else can come out.

Examples: A 1973 911S had optional A/C for cars delivered in the USA, so it doesn't need to have it in.

On the other hand, all 1986 Carreras delivered in the USA had A/C as standard (not an option) therefore you must run that car with the compressor bolted to the bracket.

If you ask me it's kinda a stupid ruling...

and i guess this is where the discrepancy comes into play. I guess my question now becomes, Were all 1982 911 SC's delivered with AC as a standard option??

[john_colasante]

Originally posted by 88 Club Sport
John,
I have a '78sc with a 3.2 (204hp) putting me in F stock. I believe AC was an option in '78 so do you believe that I can run without the AC.

That's creative thinking but unfortunately that's not the way it works. If you are running a 1978 SC with a 3.2 in "F" then for all purposes of race classification it is a 1984-1986 Carrera. Thus, it must appear and meet all specifications for that car. You don't have to go crazy and change little things like knobs and switches to update the car, but the major mechanical and cosmetic items must appear and function like the car you are updating *to*. The car you updated *from* no longer exists for class purposes.

[jpachard]

Yes, your compressor, front and rear condesors and hoses ALL have to be in the car in the correct location if you are running a 3.2. The belt to the compressor can be disconnected though. A friend of mine is one of the scrutineers and this is where my info. comes from. I know its a pain but you get used to it....

Cheers, James

[reesestewww]

Originally posted by jpachard
Yes, your compressor, front and rear condesors and hoses ALL have to be in the car in the correct location if you are running a 3.2. The belt to the compressor can be disconnected though. A friend of mine is one of the scrutineers and this is where my info. comes from. I know its a pain but you get used to it....

Cheers, James

How about on a stock 82 911 SC w/ a 3.0L in G???

[john_colasante]

I think "G" SC's do not need the A/C in but you better talk to another "G" racer first.

[jpachard]

SC's had AC as an option if my memory serves me correctly so you can delete it. If you want to be 100% sure e-mail Lance Weeks at LWEEKSPORS@aol.com and he can give you a definitive answer. Once you have the answer it's a good idea to print the e-mail you get from him and staple it in your logbook, this way if there is any question at a race you have backup from THE MAN..
Cheers, James

[78targa]

From what I have read, all European SC's had A/C as an option from 1978-1983. I believe A/C was an option in the US between 1978 and 1979. It became standard in 1980. If you are SPEC'ing your car as a 1982 US version then I believe you would need to keep the A/C in.


HOWEVER, if you have some other bit of information that can show a US car was delivered without A/C for the model year you are building then I would think that would be strong evidence towards getting the delete approved by the scrutineers.

Lance is the right guy to get approval from, but having gone that route on some other issues, he doesn't know it all. There is alot of information out there and you are best to become your own expert and find proof to back up your car's configuration.

From what I have seen though, US cars in 1982 had A/C as standard. You can always run without the belt, so it just becomes a weight issue. That can always be lost somewhere else...

IF you do find you can ditch the A/C, take out everything. Don't forget the front blower and condenser. I guess that is all worth about 60 pounds...oh, the center console I believe was part of the A/C package so it can go as well.

Good luck, and if you are on the East coast, I'll see you out there.

[reesestewww]

Originally posted by 78targa
I believe A/C was an option in the US between 1978 and 1979. It became standard in 1980.

From what I understand the above statement is true. But, since the 78 &79 can remove it the rest of the SC’s in G can remove it also. I sure hope so, because its all been removed years ago and I would have to find all the parts to put it back in.

I still have no response yet from Lance. Does it always take a week or more for a response from him? Should I inquire about this w/ someone else?

What’s being said at the Rennlist, It’s a good thread.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105685

[magilla]

If you need a deal on a currently unused and disconnected A/C, let me know. I would be happy to remove it and mail it to you. We can discuss cost.

[David W]

I emailed Lance at PCA about this exact thing. The AC in my 85 Carrera has been removed. To run in PCA stock or even prepared class all AC component must be installed, regardless if the car meets the min weight. This is because AC was standard equip. Of course (per the rules) I can add fiberglass bumpers and remove the heat exchangers for headers....but not the AC!!!!!! Very silly rule. I simply sold the car and am making a pure track car. I am sure SC's are different, but if you run it as a Carrera you have to add AC!

I suggest (you) adding a rule correction at the end of the 04 season.

Regards, David

[Lothar]

78 to 83 U.S. SC's were lumped together according to the PCA competition rules. I believe that the same rules apply to all model years in that description. So, even if all SC's in 1980 came with a/c, I believe you can remove the components just as their 78/79 competitors can. Because the weight to hp ratios were the same accross the U.S. range, there was no reason to separate 78-79 from 80-83.

That said, get a ruling from a PCA scrutineer and you can hope and pray that it will hold up from one official to another. The rules are not consistently applied throughout PCA with respect to other finer points of car preparation, but I would hope that this issue would be fairly cut and dry.

[reesestewww]

Thanks Lothar,

That's the conclusion that i am coming to too.

While we're on topic let me ask you about the front area, under the bonnet. I have the fresh air blower and the hoses (GREEN Area) I don't have the components that cover the other area (RED Area). can that area just be sealed off from the cabin or do i need to install those pieces? I also have the cardboard cover that goes over the equipment.

[reesestewww]

Reese,

All the SC's can remove the A/C, it was an option for one or two years early
on and it got extrapolated into all SC's can remove it. A/C was standard on
all Carrera's, therefore they must have the A/C and all its components.

Hope that helps,
Regards,
Lance

Reese,

One more thing though, if you remove the A/C, all the components must be
removed, brackets, condensor, lines etc. No evidense of A/C.

L

[304065]

A good fellow that Mr. Weeks. He's always been a big help with rules interpretations questions and gets back to you promptly, which has often kept me from spending money on what would be an illegal mod!

The holes you point at are where the warm air comes from. I would think they would be covered by the plastic heater ducts.

[Lothar]

Reese,

If you leave those holes open and you have a front bumper with an oil cooler opening, and the hole for the condensor fan air feed is open, you will get some fresh air into the cabin.

Before I installed my San Diego Monster Oil light, My clock hole was open. THe blast of fresh air through that hole was amazing. I may run a hose from under the dash to capture that air for summer events.

[MMARSH]

May be different with who you guys race with, but with the POC those holes have to be covered. The thought being if you are in a front end collision those holes could possible allow fuel to enter the drivers compartment. If there was a fire could be very bad.

[Kahuna]

Was AC standard on ROW Carrera? Allowing it to be removed and run as ROW rather than a US

There are some strange things allowed and disallowed by the rules like the guy with the US993 that was running as a ROW993RS but was disallowed due to an engine that was only 3.6 instead of 3.8.