Give your response to the best 911 track car

[mrwantinga911]

I checked out a a Ferrari 360 at the owners mechanics yesterday with a buddy of mine. The owner of the car is a customer of mine- that is how I know him. Anyway, the mechanic and I were talking and I was asking him what he thought of the 911. Essentially, he claimed that it is best to simply by the newest Porsche model you can buy because it is not worth trying to mod out an older model since you will not get your money out of it if you ever sell it. He said if you are going to mod an older car, you might as well spend the money for a newer model. I also asked him about AWD and he said for track the rear wheel is better. I would assume this to be the case since the gt2 is rear wheel. However, then that would leave the 996 and eliminate the c4 and the turbo 996 is out of my price range, so I guess that leaves a standard carrera 996. HMMMMMM. I do not know if I agree with his thinking. What do you guys think the best track car is? Modded or not, but if modded, list the cost in mods for a dollar to dollar comparison between cars. I was kinda leaning towards a 1993 rs origianally. Of course- I am going to drive many models first.

[IROC]

I think alot of this depends on how much work you want to do yourself and what you want to end up with. I, myself, would rather create an early RSR-lookalike (like Jack's) with lots of neat go-fast goodies than buy something newer. The newer car may actually be quicker in the long run, but I still would be drawn to something older.

Plus, don't totally discount older cars as not being too quick. Depending on the driver, they can embarass alot of newer machinery. I've seen it done many times.

Mike

[ValveFloat]

The best?


Really though it depends on what you want to spend, and what you want to do with it. Are you going to race wheel to wheel? Then you need to pick/build a car that can run with whatever your local racing organiztions are and be competitive in whatever class you chose to run in.

[john_colasante]

Best value by far is a used 911 GT3 Cup. Starting at about $75K for a decent one ready to race with spares.

[banjomike]

I agree with Mr. Float above. The best track car depends entirely on what race you're in. If you're going to enter the ALMS then the new GT3RSR is a good bet.

If you're going to autocross with the local PCA, then in the GT3RSR you'll be in a class alone with no compitition. But if you get a stock SC and maintain it well, you'll fit right into a stock class, and though you aren't likely to win, initially, as your skills develop you'll be competitive with others in your class.

If you want to race in that spec 944 series then they wouldn't even let you on the track with the GT3RSR, you'd have to get a 944 and prep it to meet the spec rules.

There is a guy in my local PCA group that runs a late 60's 912 that is far from stock. It's stripped down and set-up, and he has some of the fastest times in the group, all with a little 4-banger. I can't even come close with a whole extra liter of engine! The two fastest guys at most of our local autocrosses drive 73T and a 993 C4.

If you're looking for most bang for buck, you might want to look into a Carrera 2, or a 993 either C2 or C4. You'll get the bigger engine, coil-over suspension, anti-lock brakes, traction control (on the 993) and huge wheels for lots of sticky rubber, etc. Of course even with all of that you might find someone in a sweet 912 kicking your butt.

As you can tell my only 'track' experience is autocrossing locally a few times a year (and I'm usually closer to the slowest than I am to the fastest) so you can safely ignore everything I say.

[Tyson Schmidt]

Buy someone elses already built competitive racecar for pennies on the dollar.

Or buy the latest factory racecar, like the 996 GT3 Cup car.

You'll save a ton of money over building your own.

[dd74]

I like the idea of taking a C2 and stripping it out into something like a 964 RS.

[Series900]

Have to agree with Tyson, pennies on the dollar are the way to go.
93 RSA built up for PCA club racing, rolled over on the way to WG off the trailer. bought it as salvage, add front and rear windows,rear control arm, right door, 2 weeks in my shop on the bench, drive the hell out of it all summer, both on and off track. mono balls, bilsteins, big brakes,cage,seats,belts, fresh motor, all of it in there by previous owner, total cash expenditure 13.5K, smiles per dollar, priceless. Still all banged up, but what the hell, when I out brake the other guy, I am sure the "homewrecker" image weighs in.

[Schrup]

Originally posted by mrwantinga911
I Anyway, the mechanic and I were talking and I was asking him what he thought of the 911. Essentially, he claimed that it is best to simply by the newest Porsche model you can buy because it is not worth trying to mod out an older model since you will not get your money out of it if you ever sell it. He said if you are going to mod an older car, you might as well spend the money for a newer model.

If the mechanic thinks he can mod a car, race it, then get his money back out of it, I sure would like to know what model he has in mind.

[jluetjen]

Also keep in mind that if you are racing a car, never spend more then you are prepared to walk away from. Sure you can afford a 996, but can you afford to roll a 996 into a ball and then walk away?

One of the benefits of racing an SC for example is that if you trash it, you can still pick up another one for reasonable money and still have spent a lot less then tracking one 996.

[moazam]

Originally posted by Series900
...., total cash expenditure 13.5K,

$13.5k?! What a frickin deal!

Maybe I should start ambulance chasing the crashed Porsches at local tracks..."I'll give you $10k cash for that heap of trash that almost killed you. Trust me, you don't ever wanna get in that thing again!"

[Grady Clay]

Yes, I agree.

A GT3-RSR (new) or a good used earlier version is probably the best car. If you can find a good one for $70K, great. You will want to document it’s racing history NOW. You want to find out every little detail.
My experience is that at some point it will appreciate to the point where you will choose to no longer thrash it in wheel-to wheel racing.
If you total it (unlikely since even crashed it will be rebuilt) can you walk from $70K or whatever?

Another option with a new GT3-RSR is to own one for one of the teams to race. You are the original owner of an already historic car. The agreement could be that it’s damage is always repaired and you get a fresh engine, etc. on retirement. You could take it to PCA events when possible. If you are nervous about the outcome, get a surety bond. What if YOUR car won Le Mans, Daytona, Sebring, etc? Just participating is worthwhile.

Best,
Grady

[Superman]

$13.5K? That's what I paid for my stock SC. This is good advice...buy someone else's project and save big bucks.

I like the early cars, regardless of how capable the new cars are. And besides, a skilled driver in a 2200-lb early car with 300 hp 3.6 is going to be difficult or impossible to beat. To say the least. Those new cars are not going to have any advantages over this kind of car, unless you score A/C and cupholders as "advantages." My guess is that Jack puts wrinkles on those guys' faces. Regularly.

[dd74]

Wouldn't it depend on the kind of racing? If historic racing, sure, I'd get something like what Grady is talking about. But other types of racing, I think jluetjen and Series 900 have the right idea. Something cheap to buy and easy to walk away from.

At Willow yesterday, the only "new" pure race car out there was a GT-3 that seemed to be sponsored by someone other than the drivers.

[ZAMIRZ]

brand new: That GT3 RSR

old: Jack's Black Beauty 2

[Glenn from Denv]

The livery is a little different now but I don't have a small picture ready to upload.

[Glenn from Denv]

Well, that didn't work...

[rpiper]

1) Determine what type of racing you will do (PCA? POC? SCCA? SCCA World Challenge? NASA? Grand Am? ALMS? Vintage? etc etc)
2) Determine what class you might like to be in (stock? GT?)
3) Buy a car that has already been prepped and is competitive in that class.
DO NOT build up a street car into a race car unless you have a big checkbook. If you want a track car, buy a used race car. If you want a street car, buy a nice street car. The two are mutually exclusive.

I had a PCA GT3 class 911 that was a lot of fun to drive, but in GT the guy with the biggest wallet usually wins. Anything goes in GT and the classes are split by engine displacement. I then switched to the stock class (G), where the fast cars are all set up very similarly, and all the fast guys know all the same tricks. It effectively becomes a spec class, so that when you beat somebody, you actually did beat them with skill.

[greenmonster]

Originally posted by jluetjen
Also keep in mind that if you are racing a car, never spend more then you are prepared to walk away from. Sure you can afford a 996, but can you afford to roll a 996 into a ball and then walk away?

I think the old quote goes something like "Never race anything you can't afford to push off a cliff!"

[Grady Clay]

I also agree with dd74, Tyson, Damon, Superman, Zamirz, and Bobby. All great suggestions.

The first order of business is to set yourself a realistic budget. That is not only for the purchase cost of the car but there is sooo much other. It is not only the cost of the stuff but the cost of going racing.
How much money are you willing to walk away from?
How much time and energy do you want to devote to this?
What kind of racing? Auto-X, PCA DE, SCCA/PCA club, more?
Is it a dedicated track car or has to be street licensed (emissions) also?
Driven to the track or trailered? What trailer, tow vehicle?
Local events only or travel?
What is your track driving experience? Where do you expect to go with this?
What is your mechanical experience?
Do you have a facility to work in? Tools and equipment?
Is this do-it-yourself, pay someone, or a combination?
Do you have helpers?

Yes, you can find an appropriate car already built, but you will always want to change/improve things. There is also the unexpected. Be prepared for the time and money to double your estimate.

Below is my personal preference for an early car. There are many similar cars on the market. Some are the bargain you are looking for and some are not worth it, even if free.
It is a stripped & dipped ‘72S coupe MFI 2.8 twin-plug and front cooler with just the basics. Competition shocks/struts, nicely adjustable sway bars, 22/28, BIG brakes, SC fenders, light weight stuff on the rear half of the car (not the front),
I would do some chassis reinforcement but leave the rubber suspension and engine bushings.
Of course a fuel cell, fire system, black Nomex interior, comfortable and safe seats & restraints, and a good cage (out into both doors).
Think of it as substantially over 200 HP and substantially under 2000# with improved weight bias.

I like a “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing.”

Best,
Grady