Installed New front T bars in 15 minutes!!!

[Elombard]

Amazingly simple procedure.... Have I missed something?? I put my new 22mm front T bars in and it only took 15 minutes to R&R them and 10 minutes to mess around getting the ride height back to where the previous alignment was set.

I am going to install the rear 30mm in a week or two along with Adjustable spring plates - that will be considerably more difficult. Then I need to do a full alignment, that will probably take 4-6 hours (too cheap to pay for it).

It will be interesting to see how it drives with the stock rears and the big daddy front bars, I took it for a quick spin but couldnt tell anything on smooth roads at part throttle.

Any way the moral of this story is, if you want to upgrade T bars but have been holding off because you dont want to do the install or dont want to pay for the install. The fronts are really easy to do yourself so you can save the labor at the shop.

Also, in case its not obvious, if you get the ride height back to the same as before you installed new bars your alignment does not change (toe). This assumes your alignment was good before.

Have fun

[Wil Ferch]

EW:
My only caution would be this....look at the amount of thread you see for the front adjustment screw...and note the location of the "pawl" along the screw shaft. If it was centered along the length of the screw before you took it apart...and it is about the same now....you're OK. If however, one side has the "pawl" centered...and the opposite side does not...you may have weight-jacked the car to one side.
---Wil Ferch

[Elombard]

Thanks Will I better look at that. I think I have the exact situation you described, I thought it was from one T bar being on a different spline.

[Wil Ferch]

I could be wrong...maybe you can get the car on a commercial truck scale...maybe even one wheel at a time...before you go tearing into the car again. It was just meant as a caution if you suddenly notice goofy things like drastic pulling to one side if you brake....
---Wil

[Vipergrün]

On a similar note, when doing the rears, make sure you get the spring plates indexed at the same level/degrees without adjusting the eccentric bolt. Otherwise, you *will* end up with hosed corner weights. Ask me how I know. Sure, I got both sides to 21 degrees droop, too bad I adjusted one side with the eccentric to get that way. I think my rears were odd like 300lbs or something rediculous when they first put her on the scales

I have the 22/30 setup along with Bilstein Sports and 86 Carrera sways on my SC. I love the setup and the change post corner balance was just amazing. Have fun!

-b

[Elombard]

I have a friend with scales, I was going to corner balance it after I get the rears on. Didnt seem to have a big pull when I drove it briefly, I will have to check it.

[stealthn]

I had a question about this as well, it sounds kinda dumb, but here goes, after I do the front/rear shocks, bushings, Tbars, can I drive the car to get an alignment or will it be too unstable (if I've done it all correctly)

Thanks...blush, blush

[Vipergrün]

Bob, you'll be fine to drive a few miles to the shop....assuming everything has been properly torqued and re-assembled Standard disclaimers apply.....

[Elombard]

Bob you need to make sure your toe is close. Even a few miles can eat up tires if the toe is out much. Unstable??? Like Brad said shouldnt be a problem with that.

[diy83sc]

Brad,

Why would the eccentric adjustment throw off the corner balance event thought the dropp angle is correct? I haven't done mine yet but was hoping that I could get away with it because I couldn't get the driver side rear tbar out to reindex the difference. My expectation would be that droop is droop (no load on tbar.)

Tony

[Mike Kast]

Originally posted by diy83sc
Brad,

My expectation would be that droop is droop (no load on tbar.)

Tony

I am also a little confused as to how the T Bars can shift the weight of the car from one side to another. Or a lot confused.
How about completely confused

[Wil Ferch]

If we're talking the front...if the adjustment screw is not in the same "relative" position on both sides, then the amount of pre-load can conceivably be different on both sides as the car comes down from the jacks...and even if the car is level..the position of the "pawl" along the length of the adjustment screw is then different which can cause a weight jacking. Short answer.... don't end up with the adjuster at ( say) midpoint for the left side and way-high or way-low for the right.
---Wil Ferch

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by Mike Kast
I am also a little confused as to how the T Bars can shift the weight of the car from one side to another. Or a lot confused.
How about completely confused

Yep, it's confusing and I wondered the same thing until I watched the pro's corner balance my car. It has to do with loading/pre-loading of the torsion bars. To set the adjustable spring plates correctly, they should both be set to the same position prior to installation, then, they should be installed onto the torsion bars at the same angle with no eccentric adjustment. It can take some work, but it can be done. To get smaller adjustments you may have to rotate the torsion bar one direction on the inner splines and move the spring plate end the other direction on the outter splines. In my case, I was off a few degrees on one side and instead of tweaking with the positioning on the t-bar splines, I thought I took the easy way out with the eccentric. The end result was a good ride height, same degrees of droop, but different loading on the t-bar on one side vs. the other, hence, the 'weight' difference. It's basically the same thing Wil referes to about the positioning of the 'pawl' on the fronts....

Clear as mud?

-B

[Mike Kast]

I WANT AN ENGINEER! lol

[Mike Kast]

I guess I don't understand how the system works well enough to understand the problem. This is something I'll have to learn eventually. I have avoided this for the moment by doing a complete front end rebuild without changing anything from stock but upgrading to Bilstein sports. So.......... Truth is I didn't want to spend any money on the car this month and I went right off the deep end anyway. When the time comes switching the sway and the tortions up front will be a breeze. Its the rear that scares the crap out of me.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Mike Kast
I am also a little confused as to how the T Bars can shift the weight of the car from one side to another. Or a lot confused.
How about completely confused

Mike-
They don't shift the physical weight of the car from one side to the other, you can only do that by relocating moveable components in the car (i.e., moving the battery from left to right side).

What is "shifted" by changing the ride height (which is done by adjusting the T-bars) is the amount of the car's weight that is being carried by each wheel. Corner balancing is about distributing the relative load carried by each corner.

The distinction is between "weight" and "load", which is often expressed in the same units, hence the confusion.

HTH,
TT

[Mike Kast]

Even if all the heights are exactly the same? This is more mind boggling than downforce VS absence of lift. If there is 930 pounds of weight sitting on both rear wheels and the torsions ar set to two different %'s and one is adjusted with eccentric bolt so the ride height is the same on both wheels. One could be now carrying 50 or 100 more pounds? That is what your saying right? Load, weight? It's different? OMG this is hurting my little brain!

[Mike Kast]

the eccentric bolt acts the same as the bolt on the front tortions correct?

[Vipergrün]

Mike, you got it Yep, it can be hard to believe, but it's true. Even with the fronts, you want BOTH wheels hanging at the (same) lowest point before putting the t-bar cap on, then you want the position of the 'pawl' in the same general location when done, so it's kinda similar. As far as the rears go, think of it this way... If the spring plates are installed at the same static level on both sides, the load/resistance against the twisting of the torsion bar would in theory be the same on both sides when you lower the car/apply load. If one side is on a different spline, the torsional resistance to the load would no longer be the same on both sides. That torsional resistance is what is *weighed* when doing a corner balance.

I am sure the engineering types among us can slap my explanation around a bit, though

-B

[BlkBird]

Eric,

You went with 22 & 30 T-bars? I was thinking of the same change for my Turbo, but now you have me wondering if I should go bigger in the rear. 32 maybe?

How did you decide on which size was appropriate? Did you change the bushings as well?