first time engine drop, advice?
 

Hey everyone,

I am about to begin my first engine drop to replace to fix an oil leak coming from the gap between the engine and tranny. I believe it is the flywheel seal. I am also planning on replacing the oil pressure switch and thermostat seals while I have the engine out. Are there any other items that should be replaced while I have the engine out. Any special tools that are a must have for this job? Any advice appreciated.

rhk109
76 911 3.0

It's an excellent time to adjust the valves. You can actually see what you're doing instead of doing it by feel.
-Chris

rhk109,
Do a search on theis BBS for "engine drop" and you'll get alot of info. It seems like like the NoVA (Northern Virginia) guys do an engine drop every week! Plenty of good advice from people who have done engine drops and have documented them and you'll have all of the info you need. Good luck!

What makes you so sure it is your flywheel seal? Most times leaks around or beneath the transmission can be traced to your breather cover gasket or oil thermostat o ring.

The top of the engine is pretty clean. I have Webers so the top of the engine is easy to access with the engine in the car. Can oil escape into the bell housing from the breather or thermostat without evidence on top of the engine?
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rhk109
'76 911 3.0L

My breather gasket was leaking, and the top of the engine was a mess. Look over everything really well, I just finished my first drop a few days ago, I did the valves (order the special tool and LOTS of extra blades), breather gasket, fuel filter, temp sensor, improved throttle link, oil t-stat o-ring, new carb to intake and intake to head gaskets, turbo lover valve covers and silicone gaskets, new plugs, and cleaned the hell out of everything. I'd highly recomend the engine/ transmission jack adaptor http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/ptoo/POR_PTOO_miscel_pg1.htm , I very slowly brought mine down balanced on a pallet, I won't do that again:rolleyes: . You'll find stuff when you get in there, at least I sure did. Have fun with it though, I was worried at first, but in the end it was really easy. All I have for tools was an average floor jack, 4 jack stands, some short 4x4s to block up the jack stands to get the car high enough, a small bottle jack that helped to balance the tranny, and a adequate assortment of metric sockets and wrenches, as well as the normal adjustable wrenches, vise grips, channel locks, etc. Make sure you get the valve adjustment tool, lots of spare blades, and if you're looking for an excuse to buy some cool new tools, those combination wrenches that ratchet on one end are awesome, tell the SO you need these specific ones.;) Good luck, and have fun with it.

Yes, adjust the valves! It will never be easier than it is when the engine is out. Breather gasket is a must to replace also. You can check Wayne's 101 projects and it has a chapter on oil leaks. It's a good read.

On the tranny side:
See if there is any leakage from the input shaft seal. I think on some 915's the seal can be replaced from the outside.
Good time to check/replace your throw out bearing also.

Check hard to reach accel linkage bushings....dont know if there are any on Webers.

Wayne's 101 Projects for your 911 book and check out marcesq's web page regarding the drop he did a while back on his 77 911S:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/marcesq1/TheBegining.html

Just stay away from the cinder blocks :eek:
:)

Use your own judgement about cinder blocks. If you use them the wrong way they can break. If you use them the right way, they can support the weight of a house. Common sense.

rhk109...

What Matt said. I just dropped mine last Saturday, and I'm in the cleaning process right now. All I know, is that I'm trying to do freaking everything I can while the motor is out. I guess I'm lame, but with the engine in the car, just about everything other than the air filter is miserable to work on. So while it's out;
valve adjustment
tensioner upgrade
new oil pressure switch
bell crank bushings
oil breather gasket
oil cooler seals
most vacuum and breather hoses
fuel filter
cap & rotor
spark plugs
engine sound insulation
"S" hose
oil t-stat o-ring
front and rear engine compartment seals are fine, but if bad, now's the time to do it.
cv boots
engine and tranny mounts
injector o-rings
And then all the clutch related stuff - the reason for the drop in the first place.

I found that by removing the rear bumper (very easy - 4 bolts) I didn't have to get the car up so high, and the engine+tranny came out just fine resting on my floorjack. Have fun! I guess I'm weird, but I actually had fun pulling the motor, and was quite pleased with the process - no injuries, car didn't fall off the jack stands, didn't pin myself under the car, etc. I'm taking a lot of digital pics and hope to make a thread on it - something directed to the "mechanically challenged", like me.

By the way, I primarily used the Bentley manual, with 101 Projects to back it up.

Mike, check the date stamped on the side of your CV joints. If they are the originals, I would replace them. They are only supposed to be good for 100k miles. If they're not bad, they will be soon, especially if your doing DEs & autox.

Get a home equity loan for Danskman's list o' parts.

LOL! Actually, other than the clutch kit and the tensioner upgrade, the parts aren't too bad. Mostly gaskets, seals, o-rings, rubber type stuff. The type of things that really don't stand up too well on 24 years of age. Clutch should be good for another 75,000~ miles, maybe more. Tensioner upgrade is preventative, and should last the life of the car.

OK, is is easier/better to drop the just the engine or the engine/tranny combo? I've done a lot of searching and can't find a clear cut answer. It seems to be a personel preference.

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rhk109
76 911 3.0

Both at the same time. 1) You might have a few pennies left over to do some more stuff like replacing the heater flappers, cluth cable, parking brakes, reline the trans. tunnel with sound proofing, (the starter, of course), new engine/tran mounts...all that stuff is way easier big time with no trans. in the way 2) Remating the trans to the engine can be difficult. 3) Wayne needs to pay for his Ferrari.

I second the recommendation to do both at the same time. It's pretty easy that way.

Oh, forgot: replace the shifter bushings, pedal cluster bushings, cruise control cable, back-up light switch, speedo cable, shift rod bushing, ground strap(s)...

Is there a good source for a step by step procedure to drop the engine/tranny combo? I have Waynes book "101 Projects", but I believe it covers dropping the engine only.

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rhk109
76 911 3.0

Disconnect shifter/elec. connections in tunnel, cv's/axle's, two bolts in undercarriage and lower away. Oh, yeah, for the engine don't forget new ignition wires, coil, harness (if you can find one), grommets for the shroud, pop-off valve, air cleaner straps, oil/air filters...

Do you have the Bentley manual? Good instructions there, but there aren't that many more steps involved. Let's see if I can cite them by memory: disconnect cv to tranny bolts and support axles with wire, disconnect starter wires, disconnect clutch cable, disconnect back up light switch wires, go into car and disconnect shifter shaft at shift coupler, loosen, but do not remove tranny mount bolts until ready to drop the engine/tranny. If I missed anything I am sure someone else will jump in here with the info!

More: replace cv bolts/gaskets, parking brake shoes, shocks (suspension, hood and trunk), door pockets, carpet, floor pan in front, battery, headlight squirters, windshield wiper motor, fresh air blower motor...

When do the motor mount bolts come out? I assume the same time as the tranny mount bolts?

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rhk109
76 911 3.0

Get the Bentley. I followed it step by step, like a blind man. There were two or three minor things it didn't mention to do, like a wiring harness attached at LF of the engine, and a couple other do-dads. I made written notes in my manual of what they were for future reference. I'll look them up when I'm home and post them for you. I had never dropped a 911 engine before last week, and it went very, very smooth. If you're like me, you'll be pleasantly surprized how easy it really is. Take your time, pay attention and observe what's happening around you.

Once you have the car jacked up high enough, and the engine/trans. supported by the jack adapter (PP sells 'em) designed to hold the whole assembly (which weighs about 900#), you loosen the bolts in such a way as to be able to very slowly and carefully lower the jack with the engine/trans on it. All 4 bolts come off generally at the same time. It' a play by feel situation..always making sure everything is steady and secure. Some people remove the engine bolts before the trans bolts and vice versa. Ask anyone whose done it, they'll say it's like the very first time they...well not exactly like that. Just be careful, it'll come. Then, get new torsion bars, sway bars, rotors, ...oh you get the idea...

Is the engine/trans adapter a must? Can it be doen safely without it?

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rhk109
76 911 3.0

I checked out the engine/trans adapter and I don't beleive it will work for my engine which is a late '83 3.0 without the sump plate. Any other suggestions or tools?
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rhk109
76 911 3.0

It can be but unless you have some type of support mechanism rigged up the assy. is very unstable. Even the adapter is unstable but manageable. What is good about the adapter is that it's already on your jack and can be rolled around easily once the engine is out. Also, you can use the adapter later when jacking the car in the future to replace, well, just about everything on a 28 year old car.

I didn't use, or need one. Went just fine without it. Just have a good quality, strong floor jack. I took the opportunity to upgrade mine, and was happy I did several times. As far as special tools go... I borrowed a 12 point cv bolt tool from a friend - didn't need it. The cv bolts were 6mm allens. Bought a flywheel bolt tool. Haven't used it yet, but will. I bought a P201 for working on the engine on the stand, but you could get by without it in a pinch. Bought a clutch allignment tool. That's it, assuming you have the usual mechanic's tools.

Depends. If you're rebuilding or doing a lot of work, the engine won't attach to a conventional engine stand, an adapter for that is also needed...the biggest problem you will have is deciding what (part) is a must to buy and what isn't. It's a snowball situation, more like an avalanche, really. It is fun, very rewarding and expensive...go for it. This website is invaluable and I have found the people on it to be very helpful. There are very few questions that cannot be answered here. You have a question, do a search. Good luck!

I dont want to Hijack this thread just wanted some additional info but i am dropping my 3.2 out of my 88 this weekend, is there anything that hasnt been stated in this thread that i need to look at when taking out. I am pulling only the engine and leaving the trans in since i am swaping out the ring gear (G50 trans). i am getting a motorcycle jack to aid in the balancing act of dropping the engine.

Yes. But no one will know what was left out until you do the drop. Good luck.

I just removed my engine for the first time last week, and it was a piece of cake. The proper procedure has been covered pretty well, so I'll add my .02 on how to lug a 440lb engine around.

Since I have a '70, I had to take the engine and tranny out together. I didn't use an adapter for the jack, but I lowered the engine/tranny onto a dolly that I made . The dolly was builtso that I could roll the jack under it when the jack is all the way down. The engine just landed gently on the dolly, I pulled the jack away, and rolled the engine/tranny out with ease. My 901 tranny only weighs about 80 lb; I can carry it around with ease. Therefore, it didn't throw the center of gravity off too much.

I started a thread a few days ago about how to lift the engine from the dolly to the engine stand (and back again). Look for that thread for some good info. I bought a "cherry picker" yesterday; seems like a good way to go, if rounding up a group of strong helpers is inconvenient.

Charlie
Montara, CA
1970 911E

Jarrett, for a 3.2 the Bentley manual takes you step by step on the engine removal and has excellent pictures!

Great, Thanks Kurt

Misssing Bentley points
 

rhk109...

Here's my list of things that the Benley manual didn't list in the engine drop procedure. I have an '80 SC.

1) wire harness plug on firewall, at LF of engine compartment.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076038527.jpg

2) cloth-like fiber tether retaining brake cable to tranny.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076038657.jpg

3) I was surprised, but no comment to remove the starter cable.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076038790.jpg

4) I removed the rear bumper to allow more clearance, then also removed the CIS boot and blower motor. All three very easy and quick to remove.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076038747.jpg

All in all, went very well following the Bentley, with the above exceptions. I removed the engine and tranny as one unit. Really no big deal. I was able to move the complete unit around my garage on the floorjack without issue. Separated engine and tranny afterwards.

Just go really slow when you lower it all, stop periodically and look around to see if there's anything you forgot. One perk of having a carbed '70 T, there aren't really all that many things to unhook, none of that new fangled CIS stuff.