Supercharging

serval · 02-15-2004, 01:56 PM

I know that Porsche has researched turbos more than any other company, but lately I've been thinking about supercharging as an alternate force-feed method. I know the pros/cons of each, but was wondering if anyone has any experince intsalling or driving one.

Thanks guys

Anton

pjv911 · pjv911's Garage

Anton,
You could find weeks of reading about the pros and cons if you do a simple search on the web. Your question would require a 5000 + word responce to answer fully. In short the main differences apply to efficiency, responce(throttle), accesability, heat, plumbing , and last but not least cost. Both are quite costly and require fuel managment changes as well as a strong mechanical platform to build on. What is your application ? Thats a good place to start. Are you driving a yugo or a porsche ?

Kurt Williams

unimog · 02-15-2004, 03:14 PM

Good boost thread: How much boost can a stock 3.2 motor take?

Turbo vs. SC thread:Turbo vs. supercharger (splitted thread)

More SC threads:
3.6 Swap or Supercharge ???
Supercharge A 3.0l????
knoxville superchargers info?

And of course at least one picture

serval · 02-15-2004, 04:40 PM

Kurt, I know pretty much all the differences between turbo and supercharging, I was wondering if anyone has done the conversion on a 911, so they can give me some hints as to performance, reliability, driveability, etc. My friend and myself are thinking of tackling this project for his car 993 C4S. If it works, then I will buy a 993 and we'll replicate it on mine as well. I've looked at certain kits but I would like the opinion of someone who installed it on his daily drive.

Thanks for the pictures!
Anton

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Try a google on Superchargers of Knoxville .....lot's of pros and cons....

88-diamondblue · 02-15-2004, 05:11 PM

There is 96 cabriolet that a doctor has in town that has been supercharged and the shop that installed it says that it has added about 100hp. I looked at the car for a friend that was interested in buying it. The owner also has a 99 911 TT and the shop says that the S/C'd 96 is just about as fast as the TT. If anybody whats the number and name of the shop owner who installed the s/c let me know and i will get it to you.

serval · 02-15-2004, 06:01 PM

Unimog you rock! I am slowly warming up to supercharging. Thanks for all the thread pointers Mark, it really helped. Just FYI the kit from 9m in the UK is really a TPC kit from the US. I already talked to the guys at Knoxville and they were very helpful. Customer support is paramount and I think Knoxville's got the edge. Now this is the way I see it: it would be a pretty original way to go, but is it really the Porsche way? I think there's a Techart CT3 out there that is supercharged, but little else. I am afraid the Porsche-philes may squint at the heresy, and relegate the car to the rice burner or pony paddock.

Victor · 02-15-2004, 06:14 PM

I don't think "porsche-philes" could care less if a 993 has a pump bolted to it. Just don't go installing a V8.

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

Supercharging is less complicated, less expensive, and less powerfull than turbocharging. You know that. So I'm guessing you want instant boost with simplicity. There is at least one kit on the market for the 993. At a stock 11.1:1 C/R I don't see a lot of room for boost. I've also not seen any long term reports on the SC993.

WydRyd · 02-15-2004, 07:54 PM

I know that the non-Varioram 94-95 993 engines can be chipped to run 0.5bar boost @ stock C/R for ~395-400HP.

That's Turbocharged, so supercharging will yield less gains (perhaps 340-350HP).

The 993 pistons have a lot of meat on them, so one could have them machined down for a more turbo/SC friendly C/R

unimog · 02-16-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by serval
I am afraid the Porsche-philes may squint at the heresy, and relegate the car to the rice burner or pony paddock.

Hey... Porsche body, Porsche engine, and lots of HP, who could complain. I think it is an awesome project (993, ya!), and please keep us in the loop on this.
Good luck,

krichard · krichard's Garage

What about the poor man's SC or Turbo, you know the one NOS!!! Anyone put a 50 or 75 shot on their 911 for that every once in a while run with the vette next to you at the light?

Milu · 02-16-2004, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by serval
I think there's a Techart CT3 out there that is supercharged, but little else.

Fitted with a Cetoni Turmat turbocharger, Techart were one of the agents for the system, they had one as a demo car and they may have made up more. The system offered low end power like a supercharger but I think it was exhaust driven like a turbo.

serval · 02-17-2004, 03:43 AM

NOS does give your great bang for the buck, but there's something wasteful and unelegant about it. I think of Porsche as a precision machine (well oiled machine

and NOS seems like a bandaid. I did however think of installing a small NOS system just to cool down the intercooler. Manual trigger on the dasboard that sprays the intercooler; the endothermic reactions should be good for rapid cool down avoiding heat soak.

Anton

unimog · 08:30 AM

As a 'spray' water/alcohol can be direct injected to lower temp and allow a higher boost. Most often it is used instead of a "proper" intercooler. I've looked into it for my '02 F-250, since I don't want to run an intercooler on it, but would like to run higher boost for short periods (I have a dual chip, and two fuel tanks to run regular octane, and premium for boost... not an option on a Porsche).

In re-reading most of the Pelican threads (lot of good stuff there), a lot of concern is about supercharging (and non-factory turbocharging) not being good enough since the engineers at Porsche did not design it. Well none of us can hold a candle to those guys, BUT they have to design a system, that can stand-up to the uninformed / uncaring masses, without a bunch of warranty claims, and bad press. Everything from the 16 old out in Dad's 911, to the 'I've got more money then brains, and if it blows, I'll sue' driver. While the Pelicanhead type is a driver that probably will be all knowing of his system if he installed it, or had someone. Careful use of the boost, limited time, watching temps (CHT, EGT), etc and knowing he/she will foot the bill if it grenades, makes for a complete different operator. Some are just looking for a little more HP (wanting a little 'better' then stock). Some want to not get stomped by the Mustang/Vette at the stoplight (short time usage). Some are just looking for that 'magic' HP number of 350-400 HP that a sports car should have. And the serious HP junkies that wants it all. And I should say wants it all on this 911 platform. If it was just HP, you can buy a 'kit' and get 800 HP out of your Viper, but then you would not be a 911 Pelicanhead.
A well though out system (SC or non-factory turbo), with a reasonable amount of boost, for a limited time, will bring a smile to your face, and a bunch of emails to your box, asking "how can I do that to my 911".

tobluforu · tobluforu's Garage

Well, I'm a pelican head and I have a 730 HP viper in my garage that has a S.C. But I wonder how long this motor will last. One thing I have noticed is that on a car that has 500 hp already, you really do not use the extra 200 all the time. It's just not practical on the street. But, it sure is fun.

So maybe this motor will last a while-who knows. But yeah, it's pretty much bolt on and go to certain extent.

unimog · 02-17-2004, 08:55 AM

D'uh,
I surely don't mean that if you have other high powered vehicles in your garage, you are not a Pelicanhead, (heck I'd almost expect it). But for some, the quest for power is via the 911, even thought other avenues are easier/cheaper.
My cheap quest for power..... '01 GSXR-1300 Hayabusa, the rider (me) is the only limiting go-fast factor.