the buying process

[MarkP]

Slightly OT from the direction of this thread but thought it might help J.

I wrote this and posted it one year ago this month...


Supply, Demand and the Early S

As you may know I decided to sell my 73S after I bought a 68 911S spec (912-6?) vintage race car. I wanted to provide a report on the response I had, as maybe a gauge of the market.

I’m a web marketing guy, so I built a web site featuring the car with lots of photos and a complete description of the car including service records (www.boxstar.net). While the car is not perfect – color change and a few minor blemishes – it is an exceptionally nice, restored driver, price $22,000.

On the evening of Sunday 2/9, I posted ads for the car on http://www.early911sregistry.org/, http://www.early911s.com/ and http://www.pca.org/ . Each ad referenced my web site.

Within 12 hours I had three offers to send deposits (final sale subject to inspection) and within 36 hours I received the first deposit via FedEx. In the first nine days I received over 30 emails expressing interest in the car (from as far away as Ireland). Of those I would say 10 people were immediately VERY interested in the car and the others were seeking more information. Since posting the ad, the web site has had 773 new visitors.

The gentleman that responded quickly and fedex’d the deposit is the new owner - the car will be going to Texas.

Draw your own conclusions, but I would say this is a very high demand, low supply market that could see some appreciation. If you are shopping for an early S, move quickly, very quickly!

Thanks everyone for the help and advice, now on to the race car!!!!

[Sean_irl]

Originally posted by MarkP


In the first nine days I received over 30 emails expressing interest in the car (from as far away as Ireland

Hi Mark....I finally found my car. Unfortunately, its been off the road after the first three weeks of purchase..(***Lost the porsche lottery (long)***)

But, I hope to be back on the road in the next couple of weeks


Donk.....the same thing usually applies no matter what country you are in. You can give the guy a deposit...and hope that he doesn't sell it in the meantime. Really are you going to end up in court if he sells the car for a better price while you are waiting for the PPI....alot of it is down to good luck that you are dealing with a good guy...

Just my 2cents

Best of luck,
Sean

[Grady Clay]

VERSION TWO - I think this is getting to be a good agreement:
I AM NOT AN ATTOURNEY.

Seller agree to hold for Buyer this Porsche VIN xxxxxxxxxxxx (Car) for so many Deposit days and allow Buyer to have the Car inspected at Buyer’s expense. This is in return for non-refundable deposit of xx$50xx to Seller and receipt of returnable Cashier’s Check for x$5000x made payable to the Buyer but not endorsed to Seller.

Seller agrees to not commit to sell to or take a deposit for this Car from anyone else until after some date or Buyer relinquishes his rights in writing.

Should the Car become damaged while in the possession of the Buyer the responsibility for repair lies with the Buyer or Seller? The Car is/is not covered by the Seller’s automobile insurance.

The sale is contingent on a successful Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI) of the Car to the exclusive satisfaction of the Buyer.

The Buyer agrees to return the Car after PPI and test driving in the same condition as it was received – except if the engine or transmission grenades, etc. which is the responsibility of the Seller.

If Buyer decides to not purchase the car or the Deposit time expires, Seller agrees to immediately return the Cashier’s Check upon demand and retain the xx$50xx as liquidated damages. Seller agrees that Seller has no other claims on the Buyer. Upon return of Cashier’s Check, Buyer agrees to have no other claims on the Seller.

If Buyer and Seller agree to Buyer purchasing the car, then the xx$50xx and the Cashiers Check will apply to the purchase price at closing.

Buyer agrees to accept the Car “as is, where is, with all faults”
or Seller transfers remaining limited warranty as follows ….
Seller does not represent or warrant the Car’s fitness for any particular purpose nor it’s merchantability.
or – Seller guarantees the car will be on the pole at every event.

The Seller does/does not warrant and guarantee that the Car is in compliance with all required emission standards in the state of USA. [Some states, like Colorado, require a new emission test upon title transfer. Woe to the buyer who has the car bought and paid for and then can’t get plates.]

The Car is/is not legal for operation on public streets.

Seller agrees and warrants to produce good and valid title and other required documentation at closing. The Seller agrees to produce and deliver the car in the same kind and condition as viewed by the Buyer. The Buyer agrees to produce Certified Funds or a valid Sight Draft at closing. Actual title to the Car does not transfer until all parts of this agreement have been met.

Should the sale not close, the Seller and Buyer agree that the xx$50xx goes to the Seller as liquidated damages and the Seller returns to the Buyer the Cashier’s Check on demand. Seller agrees that Seller has no other claims on the Buyer. Upon return of Cashier’s Check, Buyer agrees to have no other claims on the said Seller.

[It is possible to spell out other methods of resolving a dispute; arbitration, etc.]

[There is some sort of legalese to the effect that if one part of the contract isn’t valid, that all the other provisions remain in force.]

Description of the Car:
20xx Porsche 9xx VIN xxxxxxxxxxxxx indicating zzzz miles.
The mileage is believed to be correct/ incorrect/unknown.
The Car is a color two door coupe with the following equipment and features.
The Car has/does not have/unknown original paint. The Car has/has not/unknown been previously damaged and repaired. The Car has the following existing damage …. The Car is in need of the following repair ….
The Car has been modified from the original as delivered from the Porsche Factory in the following ways ….

SIGNED (Signatures & date) Buyer Seller
Printed names (complete)
Address
City, state
Phones
Driver’s license numbers.
[If you have a copier available, photocopy the Seller’s and Buyer’s driver’s licenses onto the contract.]
[You can always have this notarized.]

I am not an attorney. You should have your attorney review all legal documents you intend to sign. I think a good agreement (contract) serves everyone’s interests; this one just needs polishing by a contracts attorney.

John,
Thanks, that is a great addition. Perhaps you can help clean up my attempt. Feel free to cut and paste.

A “Sight Draft” is an official bank check (like a Cashier’s Check) that is in the form of an envelope. On the face (in addition to the Payee, Payor, date, and amount) is a list of documents that must be included in the envelope. Those usually include the signed valid title, a title POA if necessary, federal odometer statement, and anything else you think necessary.
The Seller deposits the Site Draft (with enclosed documents sealed inside) with his bank for collection. The draft goes to the Buyer’s bank and the documents are inspected for completeness, possible forgeries, etc. to the satisfaction of the Buyer. I think there is a three day period for acceptance or rejection. If acceptable, the draft is paid and the Sellers account is credited with good funds. If not acceptable, the draft is returned (with all documents) to the Seller’s bank and no funds are transferred.
These are routinely used by car dealers who don’t trust anyone, especially each other. Banks use this method when financing auto loans.

Jared,
Post or e-mail your PPI form.
Right on going to the bank and DMV together. Yes, dealing with a licensed dealer is safe and easy – they are surety bonded in most states.

Eric,
You are correct – wire transfers are almost always permanent one-way transfers between US banks.

Milt,
I think almost any transfer over $10K is now reported for “Homeland Security.”

Bob,
In some jurisdictions just displaying the 9mm hardware can be a “brandishing” criminal offense.

Guys, Peter is right on. NEVER accept a Cashier’s Check without calling the bank and asking; “I have your official check number xxxxxx, dated zzzz, in the amount of USD$kkkkkk, payable to qqqqqq. Is this correct? How do I identify this person? What is your name and title?” It’s the weekend and non-banking hours transfers where you can’t confirm that too often have bad results.

Never EVER accept funds from anything other than a US bank. Even wire transfers from off shore can come back 3 months later and be charged to your account. If someone is not in the States, have them wire funds to THEIR account in a US bank and then subsequently to you.

My suggestion to give the Seller some cash deposit and a verifiable Cashier’s Check (but still not endorsed over to him by you) shows good faith and earnest intent and everyone is protected. If you don’t get your Cashier’s Check back you can declare it lost or stolen and your bank will replace it (for a fee no doubt.)

It’s amazing how fast things can go from simple to complicated.

Best,
Grady

[Nine9six]

Originally posted by john_colasante
You're not a lawyer so no need to try to sound like one.

Er, ah, please excuse me for saying so, but couldn't your same comment be attributed to your car!
Its not a Carrera 2 RS 3.8, so no need to try to make it look like one.

[Grady Clay]

Bump

This has been subject of several emails recently dealing with both cars and parts.

How about more discussion?

Best,
Grady

[Mike Stanko]

Grady,

In the case of a local transaction or one in which the buyers bank is in/nearby the seller, both buyer and seller go to the bank where the buyer gets a cashiers check cut to the seller.

And as said earlier, it is possible to call the bank and recieve verification on details regarding the cashiers check. This is a common no-fee service. Of course this doesn't guarantee that the check the buyer gives the seller is in fact real (i.e. the one that came from the bank)! But it's at least a step in the right direction.

Mike

[Grady Clay]

Mike,

Right on.

Going to the seller’s bank (the title may be there) and wiring your money is probably the best situation.

Prior to purchase, taking a photocopy of the Title to the DMV for conformation is a good safety feature.

Best,
Grady

[RANDY P]

I wrote a similar agreement - did my best to evaluate the car on my own, noted the defencies and made my offer with a $500 deposit pending the final outcome of a PPI.

We agreed on a local shop, and I made the deposit refundable or price renegotiable if the PPI discovered anything not noted as being needed before and the estimated cost of the repairs exceeded $250.00.

I was comfortable since I knew where the guy lived / worked and I inspected the title throughly and it was recently smogged in OR.

Came back next day, did the PPI it passed and I drove off.

Moral of the story is, make sure you can check enough of the free stuff (reciepts, title, etc. etc) and get as much info as you can on the seller till your satisfied - that's your best defense against fraud. Doesn't hurt to get the funds from a local bank you both can drive to in the car - that's what I did to overcome the cashier's check objection.

Good luck

rjp

[old man neri]

In my opinion it all depends one who you are dealing with.

I am currently in the middle of purchasing a car from a rennlister. I just told him in an email that I was interested in his car and wanted to take it to the next step of getting a PPI and negotiated with him at the same time a price based on a successful PPI. While the car was being inspected we made all sorts of arrangements (method of payment, transportation, other minor details) via email. The car got inspected and passed the PPI to my satisfaction. So I wired him the money today. I still have yet to meet the owner or see the car in person, I couldn't afford the time or money to fly out everywhere to see cars left, right, and centre.

Right now that the car is still at the mechanic getting a new CV boot installed so I can drive it home.

Before I wired him the money I made sure I had a copy of his driver's licence and title ( a bit of insurance, business is business). I trusted the guy because he had a lot of online posts and a bit of a reputation that made it somewhat harder (though not impossible) for him to forge. He is in Japan right now and I will be picking up the car from his wife (again, prior arrangements made before he left). So I will have purchased a car which I have never seen, in another country from someone whom I will have never met.

The basic agreement was that if I am paying for a PPI you can't sell the car while it is getting inspected. The PPI is the deposit. Simple as that. Well, at least to me it is that simple......maybe I am just 'simple'

Cheers!