Repair manuals

[dockwalker]

Got stuck on Ebay.Bought an 82 model 911 with a 74 S engine.Trying to find a manual that deals with earlier CIS.This car was butchered up and having problems cranking it.When it runs its only for awhile,then dies out like out of fuel.Suspect its flooding.Not sure where or what cold start valve should look like on this engine.Doesn't look like 78-83 manual photos.Checked 1 and 2 injectors.Pattern OK, slightly sooty,but not too bad.Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for any help
Mike

[DRACO A5OG]

Just PMed you some help Brother, Welcome to the Board

[HarryD]

Hi Mike:

Given your symptoms, I would suspect a clogged fuel filter before anything else.

If your cold start valve is not working, it is very hard to get your car to start (I had accidentally unplugged mine and until I discovered the problem it was a PITA to get going).

Check this chart to see if you can ID your problem: http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_cis_troubleshoot.htm.

You should add to your location to your profile. This may help you hook up with someone local who can help you out.

Depending on your issues, you may need a CIS Pressure tester (and, possibly, a CO analyzer). If you have a good local P-Car shop who knows these older cars, they can often solve your problem by a few quick tests and adjustments for not much money. On the other hand, if you want to do it yourself, many here have done that as well. Do a search using the terms CIS and your symptoms.

If you truly think your cold Start injector is on all the time, you can check by removing thee crossover bellows and look down the throttle body. A mirror may be helpful. Turn the key to the run position and see if it is spraying.

The cold start injector is on the backside of your throttle body and has a fuel line to it and an electrical connector. Jim Sims helped me out in a different issue and he provided the following:

Originally Posted by Jim Sims

Harry, I do believe you are seeing a leak in the hard nylon line to the fuel control valve not a leak in the line to the cold start valve (CSV). See the below images. The fuel control valve has the dot of yellow paint on it in the following images.



FRONT TOP of 73.5T CIS




73.5T CIS Fuel Control Valve (Control Pressure Regulator)




73.5T CIS Cold Start Valve (CSV)




1973.5T CIS Parts Diagram

The Fuel Control Regulator (Control Pressure Regulator) is shown coming (item number 43 in the above parts diagram) with the hard nylon fuel line and the banjo fitting at the fuel distibutor end; it is still available (911.110.916.00) for $242.80. I believe the Fuel Control Regulator is a part used only on the 1973.5T and perhaps on some of the 1974's. The parts catalog also lists the fuel line alone (911.110.096.00) and it apparently also is still available for $22.17. I recommend removing the Fuel Control Regulator and line from the car and replacing the line on a bench top. Usually the old nylon lines are burned off the barbs of the fittings but in this case I don't think you can do that. Perhaps you can get it off by futher splitting open the leaking crack; do not use metal tools as the slightest nick on the barb is likely to cause a fuel leak making the old Fuel Control Regulator useless.

The line to the CSV is actually externally braided hose.

Cheers, Jim

[1982911SCTarga]

The intake runner boots (the six rubber tubes off the airbox) look pretty toasty. Given the aged look of some of the components, you might be getting lots of unmetered air entering the system. What's with the odd corrosion on some of the parts?

Some of the wiring looks non-stock and dodgy.

Checking your system and control pressures is a basic checklist item. There's lots of info here on that. Also, if those plug wires are new, make sure you've got them connected correctly.

Work patiently.

Brian

[dockwalker]

Thanks for the help!A mirror and a skinny arm should help.BTW new fuel filter,plugs,wires,rotor and cap and new ignition switch.No change.Have Cis pressure tester,borrowed from former mechanic,just not tested yet.Car ran when delivered,sat a day then problems.Figured to go thru Bentley test procedures next week when I return.Just like a photo or a diagram to look at.I'm from Eastern NC,best known FC mechanic is my buddy,Jim Walker,just found out he has throat cancer, so I hate to pick him too hard.Worried more about him than a car.Thanks again.
Mike

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by dockwalker

,Jim Walker,just found out he has throat cancer, so I hate to pick him too hard.Worried more about him than a car.Thanks again.
Mike

Great attitude. maybe it would take his mind off things for a moment if he just gave you some ideas. The Bentley will prime you so you follow his thoughts.

[rusnak]

How long did the car sit for? If there is heavy contamination due to gas going bad, then some of those components may need to be replaced, and on the CIS cars, this can get very expensive.

[dockwalker]

I agree! Thatswhy I'm looking photos and diagrams.I read ok,but puzzle solving takes awhile for me,bad eyes and CRS.Me and Vasoline have become buddies on this car.Thanks for the encouragement.Would those boots suddenly cause the car not to start?Figured just would run poorly.Then again, no Porsche Wrench.Have a great day.
Mike

[dockwalker]

Thats what worries me.Have no idea how long it sat and can't get much from po.Thinking about contacting NJDMV.Carfax no help.Title clear.What next?thanks for the help.
Mike

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by dockwalker

Thanks for the help!A mirror and a skinny arm should help.BTW new fuel filter,plugs,wires,rotor and cap and new ignition switch.No change.Have Cis pressure tester,borrowed from former mechanic,just not tested yet.Car ran when delivered,sat a day then problems.Figured to go thru Bentley test procedures next week when I return.Just like a photo or a diagram to look at.I'm from Eastern NC,best known FC mechanic is my buddy,Jim Walker,just found out he has throat cancer, so I hate to pick him too hard.Worried more about him than a car.Thanks again.
Mike

Mike,

My money is still on a clogged fuel system. Besides the fuel filter in the engine compartment, there is a fuel screen in the fuel tank that you can remove and clean. You will need to drain the fuel tank first and then remove the screen. Your Bentley should include the procedure.

If you do not have one already, a Haynes Manual would be some help for an earlier car as well.

If you need exploded diagrams, you can get them from the Porsche Web Site at: http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/classic/genuineparts/originalpartscatalogue/originalpartspdfcatalogue/

[1982911SCTarga]

Would those boots suddenly cause the car not to start?

Likely not, but it could contribute to poor running. I'm suggesting that by looking at the photos, you may be up against a number of out-of-tolerance items that are stacking up on you.

Checking your system and control pressures are among the first orders of basic business.

Those steel lines on a 2.7 engine aren't stock. You might have a mix of '82 SC components topside. What's the number on your fuel distributor? Guys here can then tell you if it's optimized for a 2.7 or a 3.0.

Brian

[Joeaksa]

Mike,

One thing you might think about is just getting a whole new engine wiring harness. They plug into the 14 pin conector on the rear left of the car and that way you could get rid of that spyders web of dodgy connectors and color combinations.

Its hard as hell to track wiring down when someone has spliced a different color and gauge in the middle and I always like to go back to stock and make it right from the get-go.

[SC-targa]

Before we send poor Mike off to buy a bunch of new parts, lets define what we're working with. The car has late SC steel fuel lines and who knows what else. The red fan shroud is not a 74 S item, they were green. SC's used red. How do we know it's a 74 2.7?

Lets get a list of part numbers on this engine. Warm up regulator, fuel distributor, etc.

I see a blue Bosch coil. Aren't those the Brazilian ones that have reliability problems?

What electrical dristributor does it have? Does it have a 3 pin or 6 pin CDI? Is the timing set correctly?

What are the control pressures? Is there electrical power to the warm up regulator?

Just check those simple things and write down part numbers. Then folks here can help you out.

This site can help with part numbers.

http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/CIShome.html

Regards,

Jerry Kroeger

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by SC-targa

Before we send poor Mike off to buy a bunch of new parts, lets define what we're working with. The car has late SC steel fuel lines and who knows what else. The red fan shroud is not a 74 S item, they were green. SC's used red. How do we know it's a 74 2.7?

Lets get a list of part numbers on this engine. Warm up regulator, fuel distributor, etc.

I see a blue Bosch coil. Aren't those the Brazilian ones that have reliability problems?

What electrical dristributor does it have? Does it have a 3 pin or 6 pin CDI? Is the timing set correctly?

What are the control pressures? Is there electrical power to the warm up regulator?

Just check those simple things and write down part numbers. Then folks here can help you out.

This site can help with part numbers.

http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/CIShome.html

Regards,

Jerry Kroeger

Jerry,

Good points.

The Bosch blue coil is NOT the troublesome Brazilian Silver ones.

I agree he seems to have a Heinz 57 type engine.

I think his problem is in fuel delivery. Why? He reports that the car starts but runs poorly until it dies. This would indicate that the Ignition systems are ok.

Since it is dieing after running a bit, we need to eliminate the fuel supply as a restriction, hence my question on checking the screen in the fuel tank. If that is clean, then we can move on to checking fuel system pressures.

[dockwalker]

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions.Have been unable to work on car lately,but have drained fuel tank.Will check screen next week.I'd like to further explain some of the questions posed here. Tom Butler in another post ID'd the motor as a 74 S by#630457.Has the small distributor cap and rotor as 74 model.Car will not start now at all.Ran first 2 days,last time ran was idling and sped way up,turned car off.Now will not start.Put 5gals of fuel in it.You can hear fuel pump running and when you push up on the air flow sensor lever you can hear injectors.Installed new fuel filter and new wires and rotor,no change.Have new injectors and fuel accumultor coming.Any suggestions before installing would be appreciated.

[dockwalker]

BTW where would I find a cold start valve?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by dockwalker

BTW where would I find a cold start valve?

If our host does not have one, try Stoddards or you may be reduced to trying to source one from a boneyard like Parts Heaven, EASY, DC Automotive or the like.