Rick, have you priced the gts out? I think gt25 is the size for your application. I will be running k16s from a 996 but parts are tough to get in the states.

I probably wouldn't go with the GT as I was told by a few that it would be overkill and not cost effective. Even Protomotive advised against it.

I am considering replacing the turbo I have now with a Garrett T04B as Tony recommends..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/97312-turbo-questions.html?highlight=turbo

I always up for other suggestions though.

sammyg2: Variable vane Garrett turbos are mostly used in diesel applications here on the old continent. I heard something about them not tolerating high EGT's associated with gasoline engines too well. They tend to be pretty small too.

BURN-BROS: GT series has GT22 and GT32, nothing in between in their catalog i'm looking at. you sure you are not talking T25's? T25 is a tad too big for dual low boost application and too small for single one.

RickM: T04B is good allround single turbo for that engine size. I'm not terribly accustomed to those so i cannot give you any valuable A/R's and Trim numbers. Talking about headers: good thing with turbocharged motors is that they aren't so picky about equal length headers. If you chose single path, it's probably easiest to emulate 930 exhaust which uses off-the-shelf heat exchangers (they are almost similar to Carrera ones) and just pipes it into the turbo after the catalyst bypass tube. You will need to mount turbocharger pretty high though, to be able to use gravity drain into lower valve cover (or fit custom oil-drain pump, as Carreras don't have extra oil pump as 930's do). For dual setup, i suggest you to check Natchamp's short headers. They are really snug....
If you want to make your own, TIG and stainless are the best bet. (I've seen people drive around with ordinary steel tubes too, and it would problably work on low EGT aircooled 911 engine.)

Goran, Thanks for the insight. I'm thinking that single is going to be fine.

Any thoughts from anyone on fabricating intake plumbing?

Why not use OEM Carrera plenum? It's what is mostly used when EFI-converting 930 and SC's. It flows well and it has inector bungs all there...you "just" have to fit bigger injectors and reprogram DME. Intercooler can be added on the top of it if you use 930 whale-tail.

For intake plumbing I buy mandrel bent Alu. pipe from Burns Stainless, cut them up and weld up what I need

beepbeep, I really don't know the garret models.
FWIW I went to this site
http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html

put in my info and it spit out gt25. I couldn't say if the info is wrong or not. Can you verify?

I found A. Graham Bell's book "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" to be very informative. It's more theory than actual set up but there's a ton of info. His 2-stroke and 4-stroke books are good too.

He makes the point that if you're starting from scratch, two small turbos may be cheaper than one large one since they are found stock on more cars and they'd spool up faster. So if you're building all your own plumbing, intercooler, and intake it's worth looking at. Of course with the 911, there's enough 930 parts out there that it's not really cost effective unless your a good fabricater with a lot of free time. I think there's someone on this board that's done a twin turbo in the last year, maybe he'll chime in.

As for sequential turbos, all the really hoped up RX7's i've seen have gone to one big turbo.

I'll second the vote on Burns Stainless, that's where we got the material for my buddy's 3-rotor intake and exhaust. Their exhaust collectors are pieces of art, i.e. Formula 1 quality. I've always wondered why B&B and GHL don't use their collectors.

Why don't you stick to what the factory used? A KKK? They designed for oil/air-cooled engines, like ours.

A Garret GT-whateva won'tlast long as these are designed for water-cooled applications.

I use a K27-7200 on my setup and it works great. BUT PLEASE make sure your mechanic specs out a decent oil feed line for it. These turbo's like more oil than the Garrets, so fit a -5AN or -6AN oil feed line.

My mistake cost me a new turbo, but hey, it just gave me an excuse to go to a customsed K27-HiFlo, which can support 550-600HP with the same spool characteristics as the K27-7200 ;)

I believe many shops do their own customized turbos by combining different compressor and exhaust housings and call them fancy names that manufacturer doesn't use.

I'm not tottaly sure about GT25 but i have Garret GT-series catalog and it doesn't mention any GT25's. I even uploaded it for you all so you can take a look yourself:
http://project911.luminasweden.com/garrettcatalog.pdf
I believe that GT25 might be T25 (very common turbocharger) with extra cheese.

WydRyd: You can spec GT turbos any way you want. Most big ones (GT35,40,42) don't have water-cooling bearing housing and are aircooled, just as K27.

If i was to make twin turbo 3.2 engine and wanted to keep it cheap, i would use somehting tht exists in current cars...like KKK units from ubiquous VW-group 1.8T engines that can be found on every junkyard. They are unfortunately watercooled, but it can be solved by small 12V boat bilge pump and oilcooler.

For single turbo, i believe K27 or TE04 would be good. As far as i know, US Carreras have lower C/R so they can probably tolerate more boost than ROW ones. I think Juan Ruiz is the man to talk with about those things.

Other from that, ROW Carrera engine is probably cheapest/most effective conversion candidate there is. SC's have bad fuel system, 2.7s are too weak, 3.6 have too high C/R and are expensive...

From what I see the Proto stage one design basically puts the turbo where the cat is and uses the stock exchangers with a modified stock or aftermarket muffler downstream. However, everything points to using headers for the most bang for the buck. This is what I'm aiming for. I'll remove and store the stock exhaust system and fabricate a new one specific to this project. I never drive during the winter so heat is not a concern for me. I'm doubting I can use any off the shelf exhaust components (ala 930).

BTW, does anyone have pics of a proto 3.2 system installed. I have lots of 3.0 and 3.6 setups but no 3.2s. the more detail the better :)

(Also, thanks to all for the great info. Merv, I didn't forget to take pics of my system)

Rick one thing you have to understand is that you are entering into a whole different world, I found out that when turbo charging the 3.2 it is mostly custom work, If you do want to put headers on you first have to know were the turbo is going to be place and work from there, but the first thing you need for turbo charging the 3.2 is the software (chip) with out that it can break you.

My Plans have changed from the begining. First on side set up non intercooled

2) headers, turbo places similar to 930s still non intercooled

3) headers and intercooled

so really plan out what you want

just my .02

Yerman, I have most of the Proto system.
I can use it as is but want to make improvements. This is not a new idea for me. The questions I raise are to consider possible configuration alternatives. At this point it looks like it will be a side mounted configuration with gravity feed to lower valve cover.
I have the software but that is the first step as it is not a one size fits all deal. The software must be tuned after the system is installed. Also, I have the 28 pin chip as opposed to the 24 pin and apparently the programming is encrypted.
What are you plans for software?

Other components that seem to be off the shelf may not be....such as the rising rate fuel regulator.

FYI, there is a GT25R, that's probably what he's talking about. It is an R because it's ball bearing.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-001&Category_Code=GRT

But Rick then you are limited to a certain hp also that seems to be the economical kit from proto then there are upgrades, such as headers that put the turbo in the same spot as the 930 and with on the side set up you are limited to what size turbo you can use

one more thing most on the side set ups have been tt set ups if you going to go that road talk to mike the mechanic.

Are going to run tt set up ?

Yerman, I'm not following your reasoning 100%. The reason I'm looking at configuration alternatives is to position myself for possible future upgrades or to just start off at a higher than entry level setup. I'm now leaning towards a single side mount setup. Or maybe a rear mount setup, although that is not as straight forward.

As far as size of turbo: Will the Garrett T04B not fit in a side mount config? Depending on trim I think that puppy will be good for quite a bit of HP.

My 0.02

If the set up is to be the "On the side" location single turbo you can expect to get anywhere from 400rwhp to 450 or so, (depending on goodies) from there the location is very tight
"AS IS" some cutting will be required to accommodate it, from there when the time comes to move up, you can take all that staff and put in the trash, all new pipes will have to be done, best bet will be to install the headers, have the turbo on the back and drain from gravity, from there you can up grade and that dept will be cover.............

Stay away from kkks or any of this other marketing hipe hi-flows and so on.........

Remember that you will need the aid of a MSD6AL and MDS Blaster coil , other wise the ignition will start breaking up, a TO4B will be fine and if you go inside the engine and beef it up then a 60-1 HI FI will be a nice up grade ,from there a TSO4 be nice but a bit lazy from there .....................well....................... ;)

The "Chip' will be the heart of this and I don't care what everyones saids about chips they "ARE NOT THE SAME' I have seen so much misleading information from this chips wars that is not even funny, get the chip from the pros................

Just my 0.02 for what is worth...........:)

Juan, Thanks for your hard earned experience. I was hoping you'd chime in. As I mentioned I think the chip that proto sells with their "kit" is averaged starting point. From there it has to be tuned to the specific personality of your car. Also, I was under the impression that a rear mount config was very hard to drain using gravity. Where does it go? One of the lower valve covers?

Does anyone have a pic of a 3.2 rear mount install? Pretty please....

Rick as i can't emphasize enough that it is the same as the 930
IF YOU WANT MORE HP LATER IN LIFE THE REAR SETUP IS BEST

and the drain back is the lower chain tensoner cover drill in to that for your oil supply and the as far as the chip goes the one from proto is good for .7bar at about 400hp with minimal tunning and more than that you half to open her up.

My own car is in the works and should be running in about a month. Thats the end of my line since i dont want to open her up yet.

Only One thing I know listen to the GODFATHER (JUAN RUIZ)

AS HE HAS SPEND THE LAST 5 YEARS ON THE QUEST FOR THE FASTEST ULTIMATE DRAG 3.2 911 TURBO 911

As I mentioned I think the chip that proto sells with their "kit" is averaged starting point

That will be the ONLY starting point from there you are home free.......... and today it happens to be your lucky day..........;)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1078340087.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1078340207.jpg


Yerman thanks for the complements.......... I am just passing along what has work for me........

You can take the horse the the water.....but you can never make him drink the water........;) :p