Moral support update!

[Rot 911]

Well all the responses to my plea for moral support gave me the energy to tackle the engine removal last night. Here is what I got done in 4 hours:
1. Dropped the engine, minus the tranny.
2. Discovered what everyone suggested as the problem: no starter ring gear on the pressure plate.
3. Pull off pressure plate.
4. Take ring gear off of old pressure plate (which thankfully I didn't toss out) and install on new pressure plate.
5. Reinstall pressure plate to flywheel.
6. Reinstall engine (took two tries to get clutch fork onto throw out bearing)

Have to still connect the oil lines and refill with oil before I can continue the oil pressure build up and then finally starting the engine!

Final thoughts: thinking about what I had to do was much worse than actually doing it. And I am now firmly in the camp of those that find it easier to remove the engine without the tranny.

[MarkY]

Hell of an accomplishmet in 4 hours if you ask me. Good luck with the rest of the work.

[GB83SC]

Glad to hear that was the problem, THAT DAM RING.
It's not a first around here.

Good luck.

[RickM]

4 hours? Very impressive. Bet you'll feel great when she starts up.

[surflvr911sc]

I feel your pain.

After 4.3 miles, I lost the flywheel seal. I think using assembly lube on the flywheel seal is dumber than forgetting the starter ring, but they both make you very good at removing and installing the engine. Congrats on the recovery!

[Zeke]

Ooooh, that oil streak is not pretty. Whenever I see those, I think $$. Fortunately for you it was a matter of labor and much cleaning I suspect.

Kurt, top job! 4 hours! Bet you're a bit sore.

[JTO]

Kurt!

You are brave to admit the starter ring "no-install". If I had to come clean on all the screw ups I made over the course of my overhaul, well, no one would like me.

Seriously, engine pull with no tranny is sooo much quicker and easier. I'm with you on that. Did it six time in one year, and like you, perfected the technique, to say the least!

Keep us posted.

Troy

[targa911S]

OK so you CAN drop it without the tranny. You just drop it like a bug motor? I have looked at mine a zillion times and said "Why not?"

[Rick Lee]

Ok, I have a an engine drop coming up on a friend's '70 RS clone and all this talk of leaving the tranny in is making me wonder. How is there enough room to pull the engine away from the input shaft and how in the world does it all line up again?

[JTO]

Hi Richard,

You need just a couple of inches to seperate the input shaft and engine. Also, the four engine mount studs need clearance. Total I'd say you need maybe three inches. Don't forget to uncouple the shifter. Wayne has a good procedure in 101 Projects.

I got to the point were, after disconnecting everything, I lifted the car up away from the engine. I used an ATV jack to support the engine while I used a high lift floor jack and large piece of 3/4" plywood (circa 12"X12" to spread the load) to lift the car at the fire wall. Worked great. Then I lowered the car onto jack stands after pulling the engine from under the car.

Troy

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by Richard LeSchander
Ok, I have a an engine drop coming up on a friend's '70 RS clone and all this talk of leaving the tranny in is making me wonder. How is there enough room to pull the engine away from the input shaft and how in the world does it all line up again?

These were exactly the same questions I had prior to my engine drop last night. I was so concerned it wouldn't work that I almost just dropped the engine and tranny together. But I just figured I would give it a try. First you will be amazed at how far the engine will drop while still connected to the tranny. Probably at least 6 inches. (Which is why you need to make sure you disconnect the shift shaft in the tranny tunnel!) This will easily get you below the lip of the sheet metal at the back of the car. Once you do that you can tug the engine back off the tranny. To reinstall I placed a 2x4 on my motorcycle jack to give the flywheel side of the engine an angle that makes it easier to line up with the tranny. As you lift the engine you will clear the lip of the tranny and then you can just keep moving the engine towards the tranny while lifting as necessary. Once you have the top tranny bolts lined up all you have to keep an eye on is the clutch fork to get it lined up with the throw out bearing. I could keep looking down at the top of the tranny the whole time I was lining things up. Make sense?

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Kurt,

Congratulations!!! Four hours? Fabulous!!

Richard,

There is more than enough room (1" or so on mine) to pull the motor out without the transmission. The issue is for us newbies. When you go to plug the motor back onto the transmission and you have left the transmission in the car then the mating process can be a bit tricky. There is a touchy feely point (which Kurt touched on) where having the transmission outside of the vehicle makes the entire process MUCH easier. Once you know how it all works and are a pro at it, taking the motor out without the transmission is MUCH easier. My $.02

[Rick Lee]

Ok, I will try it. But why do you have to disconnect the shift coupler in the tunnel, if the tranny stays in place?

[Rot 911]

To add to my previous post, having used just a floor jack in the past to remove and install the engine/tranny, I now consider the atv/motorcycle floor jack to be an essential tool if you are working alone like I am. First it does give more stability, but what makes it essential is that the lift and lower mechanisms are foot operated. What this means is that I can be leaning over the engine while mating it to the tranny and make small adjustments lifting and lowering with my foot and continue to watch what I am doing.

[CarreraS2]

Because the trans will angle down enough to bend the shift rod going into the trans if you don't unhook the coupler.

[john walker's workshop]

richard, if the engine/trans in that '70 is the stocker, you will have a biatch of a time turning the t/o bearing 90 degrees to release it from the fork, as well as doing it again on the reinstall. so on a 70/71, the engine and trans should come out together. not that it can't be done, but not worth the hassle.

[Superman]

Perhaps my '83 is easier than the 70/71 units John mentioned, but I am still going to remove the tranny with the engine. I have R&R'd a number of trannies in other cars (not Porsches)....enough to know what it's like to FUG with input splines. In addition to the input spline challenge, my car has a TOB that must mate with the actuating forks. Trust me when I tell you that one good struggle trying to get a 450-lb engine, at an angle, to mate with tranny input splines while mating the TOB forks to the TOB, and you will conclude that it would have been MUCH MUCH easier to simply remove the tranny with the engine. My humble opinion.

The hardest part of getting the tranny ready to remove, by far, is the twelve CV bolts. The rest takes about three minutes.

[Rot 911]

Super, have you done it both ways on a 911? I too was doubting the whole process, but having done it both ways over the course of two days I can truly say dropping the engine alone is much, much easier. (But note, like JW says, the 70-71 911's are much better dropping down as a package.) The angle and spline issues are truly non-issues and I could see how to engage the clutch fork with the throwout bearing as I was mating the engine to the tranny. And keep in mind, I am working alone with absolutely no help! (Although it would definitely be more fun to have someone around to at least BS with)

[Rick Lee]

I should clarify - this '70 911 had a 915 in it. Does that make a difference?

[UTKarmann_Ghia]

Whelp, since I was rebuilding my tranny, I removed them both at the same time. Now that I have done it both ways (many more times with just the engine), I can honestly say it's MUCH, MUCH quicker and easier just pulling the engine.