stranded in a weird way...
 

Let me begin by I drove the car to church let it sit and drove it home with no problems. I changed clothes and drove to the gym, still everything worked good. Got the the gym and forgot that it doesn't open til later on Sunday's so I get back in to drive home, car cranks fine and runs fine, I got to turn out of the parking lot and the car jut dies. I pull off and try and crank it nothing. I get out and look and see that my coil is not on its mount on the fan. It is sitting on top of the distributor cap. I put the could back in its mount and try to tighten it down. Try and start the car again, I can hear the fuel pump kick on, I can hear the injectors start to squirt, checked injectors by lifting up on the sensor plate. I try and start it and it turns over but idles really really low. So low that the alternator light never goes off. Kind of a lub, lub, lub and not a nice purr. So I cut it back off, call my better half and head to the house. I did a search but all I could find was stuff on the car not starting at all and what to check with that. It starts it just doesn't have any power or really run. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am going to head back up and check for spark, I was also going to take my timing light and check things out.
Thanks in advance
Ryan

My guess is that it got flooded and some of the spark plugs are too wet to fire correctly.

update
 

Well I went and checked things out, the fuel pump works and the injectors are squirting but it sounds like it is only running on one cylinder. Is it possible that when the coil fell off it touched metal and shorted out? Could that be my problem? I haven't pulled any plugs yet I was just curious.

Ryan

If it fires on one cylinder it should fire on all six unless the coil is so weak it can't recharge fast enough (I don't think that's possible) or if the plugs are fouled, wet, or gapped too big for a weak spark to jump.
Check the wiring to the coil to make sure there isn't a loose crimp or solder joint on a wire also. You could have fried your ignition module but usually they either work or don't, not inbetween.

Pull the plugs and replace them or try this:

start the engine and give it just a little gas in neutral. try to get the rpm to climb if possible. Don't give it too much throttle or it will prolly stall. Keep feeding in throttle and see how high you can get it to run, don't go past around 5 grand if you can get there. You might get lucky enough for it to clean up and run right. I'd still check and/or change the plugs tho.

Likely when the coil fell it loosened or broke something. Go through and check the seating of the high tension wires (wire from the coil to center of distributor and wires from distributor to spark plugs). Check distributor cap and rotor for damage and looseness and check timing and dwell. Jim

Ryan,

Just how securely did you tighten the coil, wiring harness braid, and Brown ground wire to one side of the primary? The coil, braid, and wire must be as secure as it was when it left the factory ... if you expect a good 46 kV spark!

when my points were malfunctioning the same thing happened...i flooded the car and had to change the plugs before it would run.

gary

I'm betting on the wet plugs theory! Pull one or two and check them out.

Jorgeman

pics
 

Here are some pics of my plugs, laid out as the are in the engine if you are standing at the back of the car. All of them exept the number one cylinder smell really strongly of gas. So is the consensus still that my plugs are fouled? Thanks
Ryan http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1078784864.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1078784880.jpg

Maybe it's the angle but those gaps look awfully big. What are they gapped at?

Might be an optical conclusion (I crack me up) but that gap looks huge!
Is it just an illusion? My memory sucks but .032" comes to mind as what they should be. I'm sure someone will jump in with the right number.

Based on what I can see they are wet, partially fouled, maybe gapped too big, any idea how many miles on them?
Normally they would look nice and light tan, not dark brown or grey. Either they are old or you're running too rich. it doesn't really look oily to me but it's hard to tell, I'm leaning towards sooty from rich.

As long as you have them out replace them. New plugs are cheap and you already have half the work done.

LOL, Rick you beat me to it.

fouled
 

they look fouled...get some new ones, regap them and put them in..i think it will run.

gary

Did you check you distributor cap? And yes these gaps "look" really wide in your pictures.

Holy crap those plugs look like they are gapped at least .060! There is no way those plugs are gapped at .032. Not to mention completely fouled. Get some new plugs ad gap them at .028

on my car the wires going to the coil are pretty damn old. i bet they couldnt take a beating while the coil was moving around. the nut and stud that attaches the coil also has a brown ground wire that looks mighty important. did you have the 13 mm (?) out to tighten it down good? you plugs do look kinda wide.

I had already planned on replacing them. I think they are gapped at .040, but I am running an MSD 6AL and that is what I found someone running them at in a search. Should they be smaller??? I too think I am running to rich and will adjust the mixutre as soon as I can. I think they plugs have about 4500 miles on them.
Thanks for the input
Ryan

MSD? that changes everything. wide is good, no?

yes with msd you can run a wider gap.....hmm i dont know what mine is ill try to check my notes somewhere..

gary

ryab this thread may help with the gap .
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147722&highlight=msd+pl ug+gap

another question
 

So I am changing the plugs, but I am still using my Bosch blue coil with the MSD. Should I switch to the MSD coil or keep the blue one?
Thanks
Ryan

ryan:
i have the bosch blue coil and it works great....

gary

update
 

OK so I changed out the plugs and now it starts and runs, but it runs kind of rough. So I busted out the timing light and my timing is jus a hair off. And now I have another question. If I crank the car and have the timing light on, I need to move my distributor to the left to get the timing just right. But even with the distributor at the furthest to the left I can make it go, the timing is still just a hair off. I did a search and found that my plugs may have been gapped to small so now the are at .045 the median between my search of what I should have them at with MSD. My question now is how do I get the timing right? Do I have to pull the distributor and adjust it? Every other time I used the timing light I had to adjust the distributor slightly, but I don't know what to do now. Also on the day of all my problems it was fairly nice high 60's low 70's today it is colder mid 50's. Would this be affecting the timing as well? I was pretty stoked when I found that it was only the plugs...Please let me know what I need to do now.
Thanks
Ryan

So can anyone help me figure out what my next step should be?

From your posts, it would seem the distributor might be one tooth off in
it's mesh. Also, you may have at least one bad wire or wire connection to a plug from the coil bouncing around. If the car idled a lot smoother previously then I believe I'd look for one plug misfiring and/or a bad connection at the dist. cap. If the mistiming you mention is minor then I
doubt it's a timing problem. Check ALL connections and plug wires very
carefully.

pookie,

What condition are your spark plug wires in? I replaced mine last summer when I had cold-starting issues and my mechanic regapped my plugs. I used Jacobs Electronics wires ($129) and they snap on the plugs very securely and don't fall off. The car has started and run great ever since!

So I checked and one of my sparkplug wires, and one of them was loose at the cap, so i tightened that up. Then I tried to set the car at TDC and if you look at my pics you can see that the rotor is not pointing at the notch. One thing I found out is that I need a new alternator belt, it seemed to keep slipping while I was turning the motor by hand. Anyways, when I used the timing light to check the timing it was dead on for a second, and then off just a hair, and it would keep switching back and forth. You would see it dead on and the next time it would be off just a hair. This is checking the timing at idle by the way. So, if anyone has any ideas please let me know.
Thanks
Ryan

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1078944685.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1078944736.jpg

forget about the alt belt. mine slips too when i try to turn the motor over. use your hand to push the belt in to tighten it while you turn the big nut. are you wires new or old? the stock ones?

My plug wires are at least 3 years old, because they have been on the car since I got her. I don't understand why it would be right on for one turn and the next turn be off just a hair. And then the whole rotor being just a hair off. Hopefully someone will let me know what to check next.
Ryan

Maybe the distributor shaft bearings are a little worn. Just a thought on the rough idle. Is it possible that the coil clunked the dist. cap hard enough to crack it a little. I dropped a socket on the distributor cap of my old 6 series BMW years ago and it cracked it (very small hairline) enough for it to misfire a bit at idle. It ran smooth otherwise.

Cheers,

Geoff

my spark plug wires ran good/bad intemittentenly. (crap i spell like...crap) i tested with an ohm meter. do a search, john walker and early s man, helped me see the light. my car is running great now. it is strange turning the ignition without saying a prayer first :)

Ryan,

Distributor bushing wear is a possibility, but sticking centrifugal advance weights are possible, too! Take distributor out with engine turned to TDC #1 ... thoroughly degrease with Brakleen, then check by holding dist. gear with one hand, and turn rotor against the springs ... if weight's action and resistance against the springs isn't smooth and consistant, then cleaning and lube is called for ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5432&highlight=distribu tor+lube

update
 

Just as an update I found that my spark plug wires are 7 years old. I also found that the wire going to the #4 cylinder seems a bit loose on the distributor cap. I also found that the wire going from the dist. cap to the coil is loose. Apparantly my rotor is also a couple (2-3) years old. So, I had planned on pulling the distributor and doing Early_S_man's test to check it out (thanks for all the info by the way). I spoke to a mechanic buddy of mine and he also thought the distributor may have skipped a tooth. I had also planned on getting a new rotor and dist. cap. Since my plug wires are 7 years old should I go ahead and plan on getting new ones as well? Does all this seem like the right path to take or is there something else I need to do?

Thanks again
Ryan

Ryan,

You can replace just the wire and reuse the ends ... by using bulk replacement ignition cable. The braided shielding can be ditched or reused. The rubber air seals need to be replaced, too, if cracked or shriveled up! VW part 111.905.049 ... at an independent VW shop or foreign parts supply. The official superceded 'A-suffixed' part won't work on the 911 Beru connector!!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48282&highlight=bulk+ig nition+wire

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49301&highlight=spark+p lug+wire%2A+crimp%2A+mercedes

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82774&highlight=spark+p lug+wire%2A+crimp%2A+mercedes

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7497&highlight=ignition +wire+beru

dist question
 

Okay so I've come up with another question. If part of my problem is that my distributor skipped a tooth, if I put a mark on the dist so I know where it came out, and then pull the dist out, then I would have to rotate the dist counter clockwise to put it back in, therefore throwing off the mark I made, will this affect anything? Besides from the obvious that I will have to reset my timing, is there anything else that could be damaged from me rotating the dist and putting it back in?

Thanks
Ryan

another question
 

So I have the distributor out and everything turns really smoothly, my question is, according to Early_S_man's link what plug am I taking out to fill the dist with oil? I know it may seem common sense but I did not see it specifically pointed out in the post.

Thanks
Ryan

Ryan,

The felt plug is under the rotor. There is a shaft with two polished bearing surfaces that need to be well lubricated at every oil change ... the shaft is what the gear is attached to, and the hollow outer tube is what the rotor and trigger 'star' attach to ... it's rotary position is controlled by the centrifugal advance and vacuum module.

update again
 

Well...I thought I had her going. Actually I did so...After pulling the dist and oiling it up I rotated the rotor slightly and placed the dist back in the car. Tried to start the car, it started and idled smoothly. YA! So I got out the timing light and checked my timing, spot on YA! So after letting it warm up some more I tried to give it some gas(just a little as if you were backing out of a parking spot) car coughs and chuckles and almost dies, if I lift off the gas the car goes back to idling smoothly. So I though my idle was a little slow,(I met a guy yesterday who has a 75 and it was idleing way higher than mine) so as I touched the screwdriver to the idle adjustment screw the car dies. I try to restart it, and nothing, it tries and tries but just will not start. So I start all over again, I can hear the fuel pump hum, I lift up the sensor plate and can hear the injectors jetting, but it just will not start. I think part of my problem is that my wires, rotor, and cap need to be replaced, so I am ordering those today. Also you can almost smell I would say like a burning plastic smell near the dist cap, nut there is no smoke or anything showing signs of melting. Please help me figure this out because I am really close to giving up and taking this thing to the shop.

Super frustrated
Ryan