when did fuchs change from deep 6 to flat
 

Hi all,

Does anyone know when fuchs changed from deep 6 to flat 6 style. I know its within 1970 and I know there must be a cross over period, but is there a confirmed/exact date available.

I have a RHD 1970 911S
Vin - 9110301252

and wondered what wheels it original had.

Thanks

Alan.UK

1971 model year was deep, 1972 was flat.

There was another important change. The ’72 added a “safety bump” to the rim to help maintain the tire bead seating on the rim under hard cornering side loads.

Best,
Grady

I think the change happend mid way through 71. Some 71s came with deeps, some came with lates.
Either way, your 70 should have deeps.

dvkk,

My recollection is that the first factory delivered 911s with the later wheels were actual ’72 models (oil flap). Yes, I’m sure some ’71 models got the new ’72 wheels as dealer upgrades from ’71 5 ½ x 14 Fuchs and 5 ½ x 15 painted or chrome. Of course in the intervening years much could have happened.

I agree, Alan.UK’s late 1970 911S originally came with the early 6x15.

Best,
Grady

what is the adv. or disadv. of the deep wheels?

no advantage to either except that the later wheels have the safety beads. Th eVW guys prefer the early wheels for the deep dish appearence.

I've heard that it was midway through 71' as well but don't know the exact date.

Ideally car makers like to make changes in respect to year models but if they have an "improved part" they'll start using it instead of re-ordering an out-dated version.

Likewise if they have a stock pile of a certain part they will use that supply before they start using the replacement version.

Thanks guys, looks like I need to get my deep 6s restored for my 70S.

Alan.UK

Per the factory service manual, Vol. I ... 24 March 1971 was the effective date of the wheel change ...

To expose my ignorance, how do you tell the difference, is it just a deeper dish to the wheel? Can you check the part number to tell? I checked mine a while back, and they're a 6J 15, but that's as far as I went, they do seem to have a dish to them.

Matt beat me to asking that question.

Can someone go a little more novice and explain any other differences between different types of Fuchs/replicas. I started out thinking that all 15x7 or whatever were the same, then I read about offsets, now I hear about deep dish. Finally, I have looked at my own wheels and notice they are different than others I have seen.

So, is the dish the amount of inset between the outside rim and the rest of the wheel, or is it how dished the inner portion is? I have what I believe are replicas on my car (15 x7), but the plane of the wheel (the pedals or whatever they are called) are really inset compared with the rim. Is this desireable, not desireable, etc.

Thanks, I'm really confused now...

The offset is the same on deep and late 6's. The petals on the deep 6 arch back toward the rear of the wheel when they get to the rim. This makes the rim look deeper. The late 6's are more of a flat two-diminsional wheel where the petals are flat on the face of the wheel and intersect the rim at rigt angles. Hard to describe really.
The deep 6s have a 901 part # and the late 6's have a 911 part #

I went to the garage and took a quick pic to show the difference. The deep 6 is on the left
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079281365.jpg

This is a picture of an 6x15 deep dish fuchs.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079281519.jpg

The problem with this, or so I am told is, that it is a bad idea to run this rim with a tubeless tyre. It has no safety bead keeping the tyre on the rim.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079281693.jpg

This is a later style 6x15 fuchs with a shallow dish:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079281659.jpg

Finally this is a picture of an deep dish 7x15 rim. As you can see it is very similar to a deep dish 6x15. Only difference is a different offset as the 6x15 and enables you to run wider tyres without rubbing the fenders. These are generally very sought after.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079281809.jpg

Thank you everyone. I think I'm beginning to understand.

And for what it is worth, I still need one 15x6 deep Fuch to make a set. Anyone got a unrestored spare laying around?

As for the advantage of both types, I was told by Mr Weidman (Weidman wheels) that the safety bead has nothing to do with tubes. The safety bead is to prevent the tire from moving towards the center of the wheel in the event of rapid deflation. The bead makes it more likely that the tire will remain on the wheel in the event of a flat. He said that there is no reason to use a tube on a deep six. Note that tires made to be used without tubes don't like to have tubes installed within them, as the tube alters the way that the tire deals with heat. The advantage to late 6s is that the profile of the wheel between the rims makes it much easier to install tires. Early 6s are tough to mount tires to. In addition, early 6s have very large valve stem holes. Sometimes you have to dig to finds the right valve stems.

The part # for the deep six Fuchs is 901.361.012.06

This is all great info, thanks all.

Another quick question then while we are on this thread, when did the flat style 6 x 15 with the 3 pin centre cap change to the later 6 x 15 with the larger centre cap ie the ring type centre cap.


Alan.UK

@Scott Clarke,

At least in Germany, but probably some other EU countries it is not allowed to:
use tubes in tubeless tires
use tubes in 65 or lower series tires

Also Porsche specified in one of its tech. info sheets that fundamentally may not be used on single hump rims

http://home.arcor.de/s-g-e/radga.htm (in german)

This is a bit of a problem as the only tube type tires with adequate speed rating are a bit on the expensive site. I opted to buy the later type rims as I realy do not want to take any chances with safety related parts.

Hi Alan,
To your last question: the center caps changed from 3-prong to interference fit in very early 1973.

Hi Alan, as George says, the change occurred some time during early 1973. The part number for the wheel changed to reflect this & the hole in the centre of the wheel changed too.

Here's a previous thread where I outline these changes (including photos):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112993&highlight=Early+ Fuchs

Andy
'69 911E------>R

Scott Clarke is right,
VW went to tubless tires in 1957, but they didn't get safety bead humps until 10 years later when they went to the smaller 4 bolt pattern.

Thanks for the info Warren. My car was born on April Fools' Day 1971.

I currently have shallow sixes on my 71' and was considering putting on deep sixes so I wouldn't get comments. (I do prefer the look of the deep sixes however.)

Anyway, this will diffenently save me some bucks!!:)

fuchs
 

I have a 74 911S Targa, with some of the later style rim, the shallow dish style, which I assume to be original to the car. What size are these? I know they are 15" tall, but width? Also, what's the widest tire I can go with on this car? It doesn't have a widebody in back or anything.

Someone said something about the ability to use a wider tire with different offset...can someone explain?

I know some of you may cringe, but what about the biggest rim I can tuck in those fenders? For example, can I fit a 17x6 or 17x7 with low profile tires? I like my rims, but I'm just curious, and maybe if I had some extra dough I'd get some, 'ahem, "ricer" rims for it [I mean tasteful, i.e. BBS copies, not chrome snowflakes]. What offset would I need with this? Sorry to the purists.

Thanks all,
I have fitted some deep 6s on the car (pic). The car is having a complete resto this summer, should be fun. It's an original silver UK - RHD S.

Alan.UK

I have also attached an interesting picture I took last night of all the fuchs sizes produced from 67-73.

4.5, 5.5, deep 6, flat 6 and 7R.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079521987.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079522097.jpg

Bobby,
Ours is chassis # 226, but I haven't gotten the CoA yet to determine a birthdate. Is your chassis # above ours? Thanks.

Brian,

My car is #574 out of a total of 788 produced.

Alan,

If anyone says you have a problem. Don't listen to them. Only your fellow junkies here really understand.

Andy ring, quote:
"I have what I believe are replicas on my car (15 x7), but the plane of the wheel (the pedals or whatever they are called) are really inset compared with the rim. Is this desireable, not desireable, etc. "
Andy replicas are definately NOT desireable. Not for the looks, I don't care how you cars look( don't get me wrong) it's the safety issue I'm after. Check for original part no. 901 xxx xxx xx/911 xxx xxx xx
I bought a car that had replica Fuchs on and didn't know better. One rim broke while doing approx. 160 kmph/100 mph. I tell you that is not something you do for fun, thank good I sat in a well constructed P-car.

Alan does have a problem, he has too many Fuchs :)
But where are the 7", 8" and 9" x 15s?

8", 9", 11" x 15's:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079616489.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079616209.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1079616305.jpg

Andy
'69 911E------>R

erm that's defiately a pot and kettle situation Nick!;)

Show off!!! :p

Late six (left) versus Deep six

http://www.early911.co.uk/photos/deepvsix.jpg

And if everyone else is showing off:

http://www.early911.co.uk/photos/alli-rims-2.jpg

9", Late six, deep six, 5.5" and 4.5" x 15

http://www.early911.co.uk/photos/alli-rims-4.jpg

Forgot to mention the 8,9s and 11s, thanks for adding the pics Andy and Nick. I think between us there must be a fair old collection of fuchs.

Alan.UK

PS. Thanks for the support Bobby, but I think we are all have a slight problem. My better half thinks most of this stuff is junk !!! Oh how little she knows.

Thanks

The earliest date stamp I have found on the later style sixes is 4/71, on a 71S.

And no, I don't remember the serial number of the car, sorry...

Regards, Eric

Alan, you forgot about the unwanted orphan Fuchs, the 5.5x14s.

Oh yeah, I forgot those as well !!!

That would make a great pic, all the rims mentioned here, maybe even include the 2 ltr 914 fuch!

Alan.UK