jacking rear on Carrera 88?

[ludovicbreger]

I did a thorough search on this board and could not find a definite answer. There is no sump plate so forget about following the 101 Projects directions. On the other hand, there is a small square piece of aluminium that sticks out roughly between the chain tensioneers. Can this be used?

Also, I just look in the manual, and it says to never lift the rear from the engine.

So what's the deal?

[djmcmath]

I've lifted my car a bunch of times by the engine, with no problems (yet). Seems to work just fine, holds to the principle of lifting from the sump plate, and works really well logistically. If you really feel like you can't lift it there, you could jack up one side then the other using the torsion bar covers. That's been known to be effective. Or get a jack pad and lift it by the jack-point on the side. That would be particularly interesting ... Whatever you do, don't try to lift by the traditional jack-points at the corners of the frame (works great on a Civic, crushes the oil lines on a Porsche). And don't forget the cardboard (or something) to crush between the jack and your precious car. You'd hate to scrape it with a jack, having gone to all the trouble not to crush something expensive ...


Dan

[Don Plumley]

Also, I just look in the manual, and it says to never lift the rear from the engine.

There are jacking points by the front of the rear wheel well, and the lift points in the rocker panels which works better by using a jack adaptor (sold by Pelican).

Don

[Driver8]

I use a hockey puck between my jack and the engine, lift the car, and place jack stands under the torsion bar covers. The hockey puck does a great job of protecting the bottom of the engine and the jack pad.

[fuelie600]

I know what you are feeling, it just seems wrong to use the engine. It does work. I used a couple of pieces of wood to spread the load, and raised my car high enough for an engine drop. My jack has about a 6-7 inch face. I put one end of the jack face on the square area with the wood pieces across the recess behind it (toward the rear of the car). This is also a good balance point for an engine and transmission drop.

The most nerve racking part of my engine drop was raising and lowering the whole car by jacking the engine.

Good luck...

[waweeks]

ludovicbreger - i ran into the exact same question with my 89 cab recently. couldn't find a definitive answer on the board, most likely b/c the jack points may vary a little over the years ....

anyway, after jacking it up once by the engine casing, i happened to be flipping through the orig owners manual and saw that on the 89' (not sure about the 88') there are actually factory supplied jack points under the car near all 4 wheels. the manual actually shows a picture of a car being lifted by a 4-point type lift and says to use the same points when using a floor jack. and... as someone else here said, the manual does say never to lift by the engine casing.

hopefully this helps on your 88', but it probably doesn't apply to earlier years.

Wyatt

[ludovicbreger]

Hi Wyatt:

I found exactly the same info you mention in my manual. That is,
no jacking using the engine and instead, use one of the 4 lift points.
The problem -as far as I can tell- is that there is a risk of crushing
some lines. Looks like I need to go back and take a look. If it does
not look safe, I will just use the side holes.

Best,

Ludovic

[Noel]

People have been lifting the rear with the engine for years without issue. Just use a 2X4 to spread the load. And get it on jackstand quickly.

Noel

[fuelie600]

Also, If you use the rear jack points, there isn't room to put jack stands under the torsion bar covers. The jack point is only a couple of inches from the cover, there's not enough room for the jack and the base of the stand.

[mike f]

The problem with jacking from the front of the rear wheel well is that those jacking points are meant for jacking all 4 points at once, evenly distributing the load of the car. By using only one point, you risk deforming the floorpan. I use the hockey puck on the jack and place it on the mating surfaces of the case half near the rear(towards the front of the car) of the engine. Use the torsion bar covers for the jackstands and pull the jack out after testing for stablity. For the front I use points under the A-arms.

[Sonic dB]

Does it stress the motor mounts, by jacking by the engine?

[ludovicbreger]

I am especially worried about putting extra stress on the case which could lead to oil leaks at the seam. So the plan for tomorrow's oil change is to use the side rocker panel lift points. Looks like the safest way to go.

[Por_sha911]

Any full-time mechanics want to weigh in here?

[Silveresrty911S]

I've been using an old whole newspaper ( the way it came to me) between the floor jack and the bottom of the engine case on my "84".
Must have jacked it 30-40 times there with no leaks or problems yet.

[Por_sha911]

I think the question is: Is there a difference on the `87-88 versus an older model? (no sump plate)

[911pcars]

"People have been lifting the rear with the engine for years without issue."

Hmmm. Porsche has specifically recommended not to use the engine, and it seems a lot of owners have used the engine as a jack point. I'll take ludovicbreger's word it's in the manual. If so, I wonder how people come to the conclusion there are no ill side effects? Is it because they can't see internal and external parts distorting .010" or make the connection to a component failure 30,000 miles later or for the next owner to experience? What if there was a correlation between using the engine as a lift point and say ...... broken head studs? Not that I'm saying there is, but does anyone have any statistical data to say there isn't a correlation or at least a contributing factor or some other future issue?

IMO, I would carefully weigh the consequences of concentrating 60% of your car weight on a tiny part of the engine. It seems many of us slavishly follow the factory's word as God on many topics (the use of anti-seize in a current topic), yet not follow a more crucial recommendation like this and instead rely on often used phrases like, "doesn't seem to hurt anything" and/or "haven't seen/heard of any ill-effects". How the hell do we know if this is okay other than some/many folks telling us it seems to work for them? This is not one of those definitive cause and effect situations like rebuilding an engine without checking cam timing or running the engine with just two quarts in the tank.

I'd go conservative in this case and follow the factory recommendation.

Sherwood
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[Por_sha911]

Sherwood: My point exactly. I'm still waiting to hear from some of you pro wrenches out there. John Walker? Steve W? Surely Loren has an opinion?

[3.2 CAB]

I only use the jack slots to raise, I support the rear on the covers, I have had no problem fitting, 6 ton stands under each side with plenty of clearance, the 3 ton stands don't give high enough lift to really get under engine and trans to move around. They are OK if you are just doing a brake job or similar task, but down under, the big guns, 6 ton stands starting a 14" closed. Never have had a problem, doing as I have done for several years, as I too, have not ever jacked one up by the engine(3.2)

[Sonic dB]

Wayne recommends jacking the car up via the engine in his 101 projects book...so whats the real story? Can it cause damage?

I tried with the Porsche jack in the jack hole...but couldnt raise the car enough...in fact, it lifts both front and back wheels of the car up at the same time! WTF....then the rocker panel bent. Sh-t.

** Is there another point to jack up the Rear Wheels....other than the under the engine or at the jack holes???

[Sonic dB]

OK...this is from page 76 of the 1986 911 Owners Manual (written in Bold letters):

"The vehicle should never be lifted or jacked up from underneath the engine or transmission housing, or the front or rear axle. This could lead to serious damage."


Nuff said.